Tobacco Rant

This is a discussion on Tobacco Rant within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I smoke cigars and love 'em! For all you guys who like a great cigar, check this out: Social Cigar - Cigar Social Network...

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Thread: Tobacco Rant

  1. #76
    Senior Member Array Duisburg's Avatar
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    I smoke cigars and love 'em!

    For all you guys who like a great cigar, check this out:
    Social Cigar - Cigar Social Network
    I am sworn to protect the Constitution of the U.S.A. from all threats both foreign and domestic.

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  3. #77
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I think if all smokers did quit... the Govt would suddenly be demaiding all the money from the rest of the people to make up for the difference. Then , you would hear the non-smokers yelling.

    Remember, limitations on free speech is ok, until it's about what you are saying...

  4. #78
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by svgheartland View Post
    If Pasteur were around doing Pasteurial things, he would more than likely be affiliated with a research institute like Hopkins or Duke. The number one source of revenue for both of these organizations is grants. I know this, both have been my clients. He would be regularly applying for, and receiving funding. Most of this funding would be supplied by the NIH in any number of different grants.
    That is EXACTLY the point. Pasteur, Edison, Whitney, Bell required and asked for ZERO government funding. They are completely unnecessary. Did the Wright Brothers apply for Federal grants to develop powered flight?

    The fact is that the 'innovators' of today consider government grants the end. It doesn't matter the means. Thus, we get the global warming nonsense. We get Federally funded destruction of embryos. We get 'green' research. All totally unnecessary. If windmills could deliver energy at a price competitive with oil then a private firm would be making money doing it. If solar energy would be profitable then a private firm would develop the technology.

    All of this nonsense has been examined by private industry and determined unprofitable or outright scams.

    As research continues to the point of a plausible, stable result then a financially beneficial relationship with perhaps GSK or Merck would be established. Both the research scientist as well as his supporting institution would benefit from the findings and the funding. Further testing and clinical trials, in this particular case, would continue and federal funding would continue to provide a percentage of the support required. And that is how the majority of research is accomplished today.
    And none of it requires Federal funding. Our capitalistic system necessitates risk and reward. This tired government research model does not encourage innovation or risk taking. It does, however, provide tenure like stipends to so called intellectuals. And it provides the expected mediocrity.

    The greatest inventions, processes, innovations and brilliance have always been generated by the private sector.

    An independent, working in his garage, is far too restricted in resources to really plow the amount of ground required to bring something truly unprecedented to the marketplace. A better mouse trap, a new and improved cotton gin or an affordable fuel cell is probably going to be the result of efforts from a complex research institute supported by federal funds. That's reality.
    Amazing how the backward hicks, without government funding, could actually invent the telephone, incandescent light bulb, and cotton gin, develop vaccines, a cure for syphilis, and penicillin.

    I guess their being 'far too restricted in resources' was too much to overcome. The private sector will ALWAYS be more efficient than the government.

  5. #79
    Senior Member Array Duisburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    I think if all smokers did quit... the Govt would suddenly be demaiding all the money from the rest of the people to make up for the difference. Then , you would hear the non-smokers yelling.

    Remember, limitations on free speech is ok, until it's about what you are saying...
    Agreed! Free speach should be free but it is not. Sadly the government controls our speech through the FCC.
    Oh and the 2nd Amendment is another degridated right.
    What about our 5th amendment rights? Well ask the Japanese-Americans back in WW2 when they were rounded up like cattle!

    I'm tired of our Bill of Rights being treated like priviledges that can be taken away at a whim.

    Let us have our guns, let us say what we will and don't round us up and put us in pins like you've done in the past!

    I am sworn to protect the Constitution of the U.S.A. from all threats both foreign and domestic.

  6. #80
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    OTOH, Uncle needs to raise money like crazy now, so someone is going to pay.
    There is one tried and true method to increase tax revenue. It has been successful EVERY time it is used.

    LOWER TAXES

  7. #81
    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    There is one tried and true method to increase tax revenue. It has been successful EVERY time it is used.

    LOWER TAXES
    now now now....don't go bringing history and facts into this....you know the government doesn't like that
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  8. #82
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    We have one country, one government, and we can't afford an us versus them mentality when the "they" is "us." Somehow too many miss that point, or actually decry the reality of democracy.
    We have one country and FIFTY separate state governments along with a limited Federal government. Sometimes it is us versus them. Them is not us.

    There is no doubt that over the top rhetoric was a factor in the OK City calamity. Anti-government rhetoric was coming from of all people Congress Critters themselves and candidates themselves; and there was widespread news coverage of how that rhetoric appeared to contribute a motivation to the affair.
    You are blaming legitimate dissent with the horrific act of two or three individuals? Perhaps we should all be silenced like many who currently control government prefer.

    I don't think bashing our own government, comprised of our neighbors, is the right path. And, I happen to think that though much of our government not only appears dysfunctional, but is dysfunctional, it still somehow manages to do a great deal that needs doing and which NO private company or organization can tackle.
    Like what? The only legitimate role of the Federal goverment is outlined in Article I Section 8. Everything outside those enumerated powers are reserved for the states and the people (Amendment 10).

    I'm not interested in living in an 18th or 19th century world, and I don't want to go back to the kind of "sterile" ineffective government we had from Grant through after McKinley.
    Ineffective in what sense?

    Oh, as an important after thought, people thought that the Louisiana Purchase and the Alaska purchase were big government expenditures which were stupid, unconstitutional, wasteful, and "folly." So there is nothing new at all about folks complaining that their tax dollars are being wasted on stuff they don't approve of.
    The Louisiana Purchase is a great example of a leader making backroom deals with a corrupt, bloodthirsty, imperialistic dictator, who killed innocents. Not a good example of 'good governance.'

    Sometimes a government has to exhibit some vision and do the necessary things and not the popular things. There were plenty of folks who opposed every dime spent on the interstate highway system and begrudged every dime of tax dollars that went to the space program. Similarly there were folks who no doubt objected to grand projects such as the Tennessee Valley Authority and rural electrification, or to construction of The Hoover Dam.
    The interstate highway system and the space program are directly related to national security. The TVA is an example of government welfare program.

    A land with 310 million very diverse people needs an effective central government, and that requires taxation. There is no way around it.
    We need government to stay out of the way and adhere to the enumerated powers the Founders understood would make for a successful society. There is no way around it.

  9. #83
    Member Array hazard123's Avatar
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    Well put Holger! Thank you.

  10. #84
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Hmm. But it is OK to link those two to the revolutionary war figures?
    I'm not the one trying to link them

    We have one country, one government, and we can't afford an us versus them mentality when the "they" is "us." Somehow too many miss that point, or actually decry the reality of democracy.
    And vastly different beliefs in what this country could be and should be.

    There is no doubt that over the top rhetoric was a factor in the OK City calamity. Anti-government rhetoric was coming from of all people Congress Critters themselves and candidates themselves; and there was widespread news coverage of how that rhetoric appeared to contribute a motivation to the affair.
    You dismiss people's real concerns as rhetoric every chance you get. People come to their beliefs in many different ways and to dismiss it so just because you don't believe what you hear or disagree isn't wise. That arguement can and has been used for just about anything controversial. I remember listening to that so-called satanic heavy metal growing up. Surprise, I'm not a devil worshipper.

    Instead of imagining that you are living in 1776 and will "revolt," (not saying you specifically have that thought as an individual but many seem to hold that thought dear), work constructively to get others to accept the smaller government viewpoint. (I think it is a misguided vision, but I don't begrudge anyone a right to attempt to promote their ideas.)
    Except for a very small number, I doubt there are that many considering real open revolt at this time. People say things in the moment all the time.

    I don't think bashing our own government, comprised of our neighbors, is the right path. And, I happen to think that though much of our government not only appears dysfunctional, but is dysfunctional, it still somehow manages to do a great deal that needs doing and which NO private company or organization can tackle.
    Neighbors? I can't even get a reply from my reps except for a form letter that usually has little to do with the subject I inquired about. They push their party's agenda before considering what the voters at home want. Some neighbors.
    I agree that our government does get things done but often times, it's inefficient and way too costly. Sometimes (often!), they accomplish things that they shouldn't be doing in the first place. Applaud the good that government does but don't ignore the mistakes and don't be complacent and accept the way things are.

    I'm not interested in living in an 18th or 19th century world, and I don't want to go back to the kind of "sterile" ineffective government we had from Grant through after McKinley.
    Geez, who is? I am interested in a government that knows it's place. That doesn't mean it has to be ineffective.

    Oh, as an important after thought, SOME people thought that the Louisiana Purchase and the Alaska purchase were big government expenditures which were stupid, unconstitutional, wasteful, and "folly." So there is nothing new at all about folks complaining that their tax dollars are being wasted on stuff they don't approve of.
    Had to add some as not everyone felt that way.
    No, there is nothing new about people complaining about taxes. I think history has proved many of those concerns just.

    Sometimes a government has to exhibit some vision and do the necessary things and not the popular things. There were plenty of folks who opposed every dime spent on the interstate highway system and begrudged every dime of tax dollars that went to the space program. Similarly there were folks who no doubt objected to grand projects such as the Tennessee Valley Authority and rural electrification, or to construction of The Hoover Dam.
    Sure! There are also people that believed the world was flat. What's your point? They also use our tax money to buy $300 toilet seats, a couple million to study traffic patterns in Bullpuckey, Montana and so on and so on and....


    A land with 310 million very diverse people needs an effective central government, and that requires taxation. There is no way around it.
    Agreed, but do it wisely and efficiently. Having an effective central government doesn't mean it has to be an enormous, bungling bureaucracy. It also doesn't mean that it has to be over-bearing and intrusive. Unjust taxation is only part of the problem with our government today.

    Sorry for the length people.

  11. #85
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Sometimes a government has to exhibit some vision and do the necessary things and not the popular things. There were plenty of folks who opposed every dime spent on the interstate highway system and begrudged every dime of tax dollars that went to the space program. Similarly there were folks who no doubt objected to grand projects such as the Tennessee Valley Authority and rural electrification, or to construction of The Hoover Dam.

    These folks were shortsighted.

    A land with 310 million very diverse people needs an effective central government, and that requires taxation. There is no way around it.
    You call them shortsighted...I call them the only ones with sight and the rest of us are blind.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  12. #86
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    OK, Duisburg, you get best of thread award

    Quote Originally Posted by Duisburg View Post
    I smoke cigars and love 'em!

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    Brilliant!!! You get the best of the thread award.

    Nice site: thanks for sharing.

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