Will Cybercops Be Lurking Here at DC.com?

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Thread: Will Cybercops Be Lurking Here at DC.com?

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    Will Cybercops Be Lurking Here at DC.com?

    Is our government going to end up monitoring all our internet traffic like the Chinese govt.?

    With the rash of shootings lately in New York and Pittsburgh, how long will it be before the government has "bots" lurking on gun forums like this one making up a list of undesirables?

    Is it such a stretch to think this kind of legislation, if passed, won't be morphed or abused to allow such intrusion on certain internet forums and discussion boards deemed a "threat to the national security?"


    WND: Will Bill Give Obama Control of Internet? (article)

    LIFE WITH BIG BROTHER
    Will bill give Obama control of Internet?


    Proposed new powers called 'drastic federal intervention'
    Posted: April 04, 2009
    10:35 pm Eastern

    By Drew Zahn
    2009 WorldNetDaily


    Sen. John "Jay" Rockefeller, D-W.V.

    A pair of bills introduced in the U.S. Senate would grant the White House sweeping new powers to access private online data, regulate the cybersecurity industry and even shut down Internet traffic during a declared "cyber emergency."

    Senate bills No. 773 and 778, introduced by Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.V., are both part of what's being called the Cybersecurity Act of 2009, which would create a new Office of the National Cybersecurity Advisor, reportable directly to the president and charged with defending the country from cyber attack.

    A working draft of the legislation obtained by an Internet privacy group also spells out plans to grant the Secretary of Commerce access to all privately owned information networks deemed to be critical to the nation's infrastructure "without regard to any provision of law, regulation, rule or policy restricting such access."

    Who might be watching you without you knowing it? Get "Spychips" and see how major corporations and government are planning to track your every move!

    Privacy advocates and Internet experts have been quick to sound the alarm over the act's broadly drawn government powers.

    "The cybersecurity threat is real," says Leslie Harris, president of the Center for Democracy and Technology, which obtained the draft of S.773, "but such a drastic federal intervention in private communications technology and networks could harm both security and privacy."

    "The whole thing smells bad to me," writes Larry Seltzer in eWeek, an Internet and print news source on technology issues. "I don't like the chances of the government improving this situation by taking it over generally, and I definitely don't like the idea of politicizing this authority by putting it in the direct control of the president."

    According to a Senate document explaining the bill, the legislation "addresses our country's unacceptable vulnerability to massive cyber crime, global cyber espionage and cyber attacks that could cripple our critical infrastructure."

    In a statement explaining the bill's introduction, Sen. Rockefeller said, "We must protect our critical infrastructure at all costs – from our water to our electricity, to banking, traffic lights and electronic health records – the list goes on."

    Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, who is co-sponsoring the bill, added, "If we fail to take swift action, we, regrettably, risk a cyber-Katrina."

    Critics, however, have pointed to three actions Rockefeller and Snowe propose that may violate both privacy concerns and even constitutional bounds:

    First, the White House, through the national cybersecurity advisor, shall have the authority to disconnect "critical infrastructure" networks from the Internet – including private citizens' banks and health records, if Rockefeller's examples are accurate – if they are found to be at risk of cyber attack. The working copy of the bill, however, does not define what constitutes a cybersecurity emergency, and apparently leaves the question to the discretion of the president.

    Second, the bill establishes the Department of Commerce as "the clearinghouse of cybersecurity threat and vulnerability information," including the monitoring of private information networks deemed a part of the "critical infrastructure."

    Third, the legislation proposes implementation of a professional licensing program for certifying who can serve as a cybersecurity professional.

    And while the critics concede the need for increased security, they object to what is perceived as a dangerous and intrusive expansion of government power.

    "There are some problems that we face which need the weight of government behind them," writes Seltzer in eWeek. "This is not the same as creating a new federal bureaucracy setting rules over what computer security has to be and who can do it."

    "It's an incredibly broad authority," CDT senior counsel Greg Nojeim told the Mother Jones news website, troubled that existing privacy laws "could fall to this authority."

    Jennifer Granick, civil liberties director at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, told Mother Jones the bill is "contrary to what the Constitution promises us."

    According to Granick, granting the Department of Commerce oversight of the "critical" networks, such as banking records, would grant the government access to potentially incriminating information obtained without cause or warrant, a violation of the Constitution's prohibition against unlawful search and seizure.

    "What are the critical infrastructure networks? The examples provided are 'banking, utilities, air/rail/auto traffic control, telecommunications.' Let's think about this," writes Seltzer. "I'm especially curious as to how you take the telecommunications networks off of the Internet when they are, in large part, what the Internet is comprised of. And if my bank were taken offline, I would think about going into my branch and asking for all of my deposits in cash."

    S. 778, which would establish the Office of the National Security Advisor, and S. 773, which provides for developing a cadre of governmental cybersecurity specialists and procedures, have both been read twice and referred to committee in the Senate.
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    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    They mention violating constitutional bounds, that's never stopped them before. You can bet there is some type of monitoring now.



    The working copy of the bill, however, does not define what constitutes a cybersecurity emergency, and apparently leaves the question to the discretion of the president.

    This part is very comforting.


    According to Granick, granting the Department of Commerce oversight of the "critical" networks, such as banking records, would grant the government access to potentially incriminating information obtained without cause or warrant, a violation of the Constitution's prohibition against unlawful search and seizure.


    An open door to prosecute non cyber crimes.



    "The whole thing smells bad to me," writes Larry Seltzer in eWeek, an Internet and print news source on technology issues. "I don't like the chances of the government improving this situation by taking it over generally, and I definitely don't like the idea of politicizing this authority by putting it in the direct control of the president."

    +100 for Larry


    And while the critics concede the need for increased security, they object to what is perceived as a dangerous and intrusive expansion of government power.


    If by dangerous and intrusive they also mean illegal then yes.



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    Member Array Fred's Avatar
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    Why do you say "will"? If you keep up with technology you already know not only what they do but how. Mostly key words and such. A lot of computer sifting software unless you're a person of interest then everything.

    If you can explain how a surveillance program (any progam actually) would work in plain english it's pretty much a given it can be done. Given our current political/social climate it's pretty much that if it isn't being done already it soon will be.

    If you decide to dig it will scare you. Just don't be surprised by what you find.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Will Cybercops Be Lurking Here at DC.com?
    Quite simply, this is a PUBLIC forum. 'Nuff said, really, as there's no snooping or surreptitious behavior involved. Don't want something read? Don't post it.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Quite simply, this is a PUBLIC forum. 'Nuff said, really, as there's no snooping or surreptitious behavior involved. Don't want something read? Don't post it.
    My point is, if the Brady campaign were to get their way in Washington, EVERY MEMBER here along with every other pro-gun forum would be placed on a "subversives" list as "potential enemies of the State!"

    It doesn't matter what we say here... It's merely the fact that our point of view differs from theirs with regards to guns and self defense, and that is all that matters to the gun banners!

    Missouri Highway Patrol recently tried to circulate a brochure to all local LEO's explaining ways to identify and profile people as possible "Militia Members" and potentially "Anti-Government" based on people who had Ron Paul bumper stickers on their cars as well as a list of other indicators.

    The Lt. Governor who happens to be a republican threatened to have the Superintendent of the Patrol put on administrative leave and investigated on how that clearly unconstitutional brochure got circulated and was able to have it rescinded and quashed.

    The main point I'm making is that so much is happening so fast that not everything is going to get stopped or scrutinized.

    We are very quickly being bombarded with new policies and practices since the new administration took office which would not pass constitutional scrutiny.

    It's like they are intentionally trying to overwhelm and smother us with so much that a lot of very bad stuff is going to eventually become law of the land.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    We might be on the target list, but there are bunches of other forums that will be scrutinized first.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    .... would be placed on a "subversives" list as "potential enemies of the State!"
    Sure, and merely because of the potential power of a group of people with different views than the norm. Whether such a list gets compiled is really irrelevant, because we already are members of this group and we already do have different views from the norm, at least viewed from the perspective of a legislator.

    We are very quickly being bombarded with new policies and practices since the new administration took office which would not pass constitutional scrutiny.
    That's the way of the dishonorable. Nothing we can do here will change that, until vast change occurs at the voting booths and with the statutes over time. We are "subversive," many of us, in the sense that we demand the change that's required. But if that's to be the definition, publicly stated with nothing to hide and no evil actions planned, then so be it. IMO, it's bloody well time to be proud of that fact.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    VIP Member Array Dal1Celt's Avatar
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    As if they ar not already here??

    But we have nothing to hide, so Greetings and Welcome to them aswell.
    "Without fear there can be no Courage!"

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    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    They already are here, but a bill like that will give far too much control of the internet to the federal government.

    This has nothing to do with security, folks. The internet is one of the last remaining somewhat free mediums we have. That scares the government very, very badly. This is all about control.

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    It ain't hard to figure.

    The INTERNET is the most free and convenient exchange of information the world has ever seen.

    If I was plotting the destruction of the United States as we know it, and I wanted to break it down from within, control of information would be very high on my list of priorities.

    In truth, I'm surprised it took the Administration so long. They are seizing control of everything else, why not the Internet?

    Socialism requires that information be government controlled. Its the only way that they can keep the truth from being discovered.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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    This is, as someone already stated, a public forum. Scary would be an authority or ability to squeeze registrant information from the owners. If I wanted you all to know my real name, I'd use it instead of a screen name.

    In our crazy world today, I would assume that anything you do or write or say is open to "spying" in one form or another. Personally, I'm more concerned with the spying by identity thieves than I am by any governmental organization.

    Also, most of us know nothing, do nothing, say nothing, which would be the least bit of interest to anyone except our moms. So blanket spying is a huge resource waste.

    I've been active on the internet since its earliest days and so far no one from any governmental entity has shown the least bit of interest in me.

    I do think it is wise to use real time encryption on your hard drive, and to use "wipe" programs to remove deleted files, not because of fear that the drive will be taken by authorities, but because it saves the trouble have having to beat an old one to death with a hammer and blow torch before putting it in the trash.

    Slightly off topic but still related, does anyone know why banks, credit card companies, and others who use secure servers for financial transactions don't issue the sort of key-fob random number generators PayPal makes available to assure that even if a user name and password are stolen, they can't be used?
    It sure seems like this measure used by Pay Pal is one of the brighter ideas out there for protecting personal accounts.

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    Eighty million gun owners better wake up start and thinking about the power of voting...this crap has gone far enough...

    Between the mass killings lately and the tightening of proposed and already 'acted upon' government controls, we won't recognize this country in a few more years.
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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    What is wanted here is a means to shut down communications when the SHTF. That they think is come and I believe they want to happen. It is all about CONTROL !!!

    So if you have someone you wish to keep in contact with when it alll happens you better have their phone number, (even if the phones will work.)

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    Of course they are here ... so what.
    My father was a diplomat, and at an early age, I was taught to always watch what I was saying, in any language, in any environment. It stuck for the rest of my life.
    Awareness is not only watching the others but also yourself.
    I try very hard to avoid saying, writing anything I wouldn't want anybody to know.

    I know I am on many lists because I am a radio amateur, a gun owner, a commercial pilot, a flight instructor, a CCW holder, a board member of a motorcycle club, and the list goes on.
    I know more than enough computer application programming to realize how easy it is to cross reference data and "mine" it.
    Does it worry me ? NO
    Does it bother me? NO Actually it may have some benefits; I am still surprised we did not have another attack like 9/11, and I believe it is partly due to that kind of information gathering and processing.
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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Go Google your username...

    Then, answer the question about whether or not 'they' are already here.
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