May 6th, 2009 11:51 AM
What's with this endemic apathy? (Rant)
Okay, so this happened two nights ago, but I wanted to calm down and be sure I made sense before posting.
Here's what happened: Monday night, I was on my way to a rescue errand. I left home before it got dark, and we have some very twisty, winding roads around here. Also, we've got this intermittent mist/rain going on for a few days, so the roads are not exactly fabulous to take on at high speeds, dig?
Anyhow, I come around a very sharp turn and notice that there are at least SIX vehicles, all at a dead stop on the side of the road! (This is a 2-lane road) Every single driver is inside their vehicle, and they're all staring at this one car, perpendicular to the road, front end smashed in, 1/2 on the road and 1/2 in a ditch. Two things are immediately obvious: 1) that the occupants in the wrecked car are still in there and 2) there's no sirens yet, and no one appears to be DOING ANYTHING!
WHAT THE H-E-Double-hockey-sticks?!?!?!?!
So I pull over and immediately run out of my van and bang on the window of the smashed up car, help open the door, and ask the two people inside "are you okay? Are you hurt? Do you need any assistance?" (I keep a mega-1st-aid kit in my car after the 1st time I was witness to an accident.)
At least a full 2 minutes later, people start to exit their vehicles and go, "should I call 9-1-1 on my phone? Are those people ok?"
Is anyone else burning hot about thus? Why did they WAIT? I mean, clearly they had time to do what I did...six vehicles were PARKED already! Why did they have to wait for ME to do the right thing before each of them slowly "came to?"
This really pissed me off because about 3 years ago, back when we were living in Orlando, I saw a biker get hit (hit and run, actually!) by a speeding pick-up truck on I-4 at lunchtime. I was the 4th car to pull over, and yet NO ONE GOT OUT OF THEIR CARS! And I was STILL the 1st person to call 9-1-1! I had to literally bang on windows and say "you! Help me get this guy onto the shoulder" "You two, go move that bike out of the road" "You over there, set up these flares so we don't all get hit" "you, call 9-1-1 again!"
I mean, come on! This can't just be me, right?
So I vented to my husband about it, and he said that it's because our society is infected with an endemic apathy. Everyone wants to pull over, to watch, to be entertained, but no one seems to have concern for anyone other than themselves. Let some biker go into shock and bleed out while they watch, it's like a horror movie. Pass the popcorn. But don't dare pick up the cell and dial for help, oh no, that's too much effort. No one wants to get involved.
When the **** did all this start happening? We need a serious intervention and a return to values, BIG TIME.
Sorry. Thanks for listening to me rant and rave.
Don't frisk me, I am the weapon.
Sig Sauer P239 DAK (9mm)
NRA Member & Pistol Instructor
May 6th, 2009 11:54 AM
This is why I carry a firearm.You cannot expect assistance, no matter how dire the circumstance.
"Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington
May 6th, 2009 12:24 PM
I understand, it's just a huge let-down. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I'd like to think better of our society than that. When did it start getting this way?
Don't frisk me, I am the weapon.
Sig Sauer P239 DAK (9mm)
NRA Member & Pistol Instructor
May 6th, 2009 12:27 PM
A few of many situations here and sad commentary :
1. The people standing / looking are just too stunned in unbelief at what they see to respond with at least a 911 call.
2. People don't want the "hassle" of getting involved, but yet, they want to rubberneck for some twisted entertainment.
3. People are just plain stupid, and you can't fix stupid.
4. A lot of folks are just desensitized to this sort of thing, we see it in the media all the time so some just don't respond in a "normal" way. Sad but true.
"A Smith & Wesson always beats 4 aces!"
The Man Prayer. "Im a man, I can change, if I have to.....I guess!" ~ Red Green
May 6th, 2009 12:43 PM
I think right about the time people started suing rescuers for any kind of "damage" the rescuer might have inflicted, is when people stopped giving a crap.
May 6th, 2009 12:51 PM
Sad but true.
Originally Posted by GreenHorn
May 6th, 2009 01:04 PM
Good Thread There Bunny
It's sad really and total apathy is an increasing problem.
There still are some folks cautiously willing to go and help somebody who might be in need of assistance.
Basically the days of Multiple Quantities Of Good Samaritans in every crowd are over.
You are proof positive that some still remain, so I guess (all things considered) & regarding modern day society "one in six" ain't bad.
So...are we getting more like ancient Rome where watching people die is entertaining sport?
Well, American is in the decline like ancient Rome so possibly that is part of it.
Legal liability and the fear of getting sued is also part of it.
You can go do your very best to help somebody out and if things do not go 100% right it's possible to lose your home, car, as well as your life savings as payback for your great intentions.
That is truly "sick" but, it does happen and so that is one thing that has really helped to foster the modern day "Don't Ever Get Involved!" mentality.
So...if people are afraid to get involved - they won't.
Also...the more that "scumbag criminals and scammers" "get creative" & more sophisticated, and dream up more and more "various ploys" in order to prey on innocent "good hearted" folks...the more that normally "good hearted" folks will absolutely refuse to get involved in any scenario where total strangers are involved.
> Injured female laying on the side of the road.
> Good Samaritan exits vehicle & runs over to help.
> Two hidden thugs working w/ the "injured" female.
> They run over & slam the occupied good guy in the head with a ball bat.
> Rob the guy - Steal his vehicle & leave him for dead.
That one sure has kept many average folks from running over to render aide and comfort to "supposed" helpless victims.
May 6th, 2009 01:47 PM
We are driving the truck in Alabama; see a biker pushing his bike; we stop (making sure my wife has her SW ready); the guy is exhausted, dehydrated, he ran out of gas and didn't dare leave his bike on the side of the road. We give him some gas, refuse his dollars and learn that he has been pushing for a couple of hours, thousands of cars, trucks passed him, slowing down, looking and going.
He says:"You are the only car to stop" and I say:"my other car is an Ultra (Harley).
We were one out of many thousands ...
You are right, people are desensitized and totally egoistic ...
It is not going to get better either.
The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
The second rule: "Bring enough gun"
jfl (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)
May 6th, 2009 02:26 PM
My personal feeling on a situation like this
1. Either everybody thought someone else would call 911 so non of them did
2. People are afraid. Now this might not sound right but it has been smashed into our way of life that helping people today just might land you in jail or in court or sued off your butt.
People just do not want to get involved. In a situation like yours, i do not see how they can not get involved but luckily you arrived to take the lead.
May 6th, 2009 02:39 PM
Yep. Fear of lawsuits and violence are factors. So is selfcenteredness.
I think the increased divisiveness of Americans has added to a lack of concern for our fellow Americans. When I was young, I rarely heard of a "xxxxx-American" (fill in the blank with your favorite country or region). I only heard of "Americans". I understand heritage is important. I get it. But back then, we had more of a united culture. Now we're divided a thousand different ways.
This may sound stupid, but I find myself caring less for others because I'm being taxed way more than in the past, so now I have to work harder and harder just to stay even. If gov't would stop stealing my money and squandering it on stupid studies, or grants to nations that hate us, or handouts to people too lazy to work, then I wouldn't be so bitter. My Dad never asked for a gov't handout, although we would have qualified. I haven't asked. All I want is a reasonable portion of my tax money back so I don't have to struggle so hard to provide for my family.
Plus, some of us are "event weary". I've seen so many people in bad situations (I'm talking about on a national level) that I'm getting numb to it. Many of these folks would have been much better off if they'd taken a few proactive steps, such as the morons after some recent hurricane (which was predicted for almost a week) standing out in the street 3 days later yelling, "Where's my FEMA water?!?!?"
For me personally, it's the threat of lawsuits, threat of violence, and desensitization from seeing so many disasters, and the struggle to provide for my own.
If the gov't would get off my back, not only would I have more time to help others, I'd have more money also.
I hope I would help someone in an accident as mentioned in the OP, but I'm really losing my compassion for people, especially those who continue voting to bankrupt our country and make my money worthless, and also leave a shell of a country for my child. No, I can't tell who those people are at a glance, but I've pretty much given up on expecting Americans for the most part to make choices I agree with.
I'm so busy I don't have time to be sitting here typing. That adds to my frustration, which results in me thinking about the 100 things I need to be doing rather than helping my fellow man. Maybe I'll get things in proper perspective and order before I die, but I ain't there yet. It's hard to get all the necessary stuff done, much less help other people, when one works an average of 55 hours per week.
Okay, I'll quit my whining and go unload the groceries and emergency supplies I just bought.
Last edited by grady; May 6th, 2009 at 03:51 PM.
May 6th, 2009 02:49 PM
its called "diffusion of responsibility". everyone thinks that someone else will step up and call 911/ render aid, that nothing gets done. good job stepping up and doing the right thing.
Originally Posted by Bunny
what do you keep in your "mega first aid kit" by the way? just curious.
most people either dont want to help out of fear of hurting someone, or the fact that they dont know what to do.
EDIT: jsut so yall know there are "good smaratin" laws that will protect you from any litigation brought against you, for rendering BASIC first aid, until trained medical people get there.
May 6th, 2009 02:56 PM
It has infected everybody, even gun owners. There are over 50 million gun owners in this country and only 4 million belong to the NRA and of those only a few thousand might write their elected officials every now and then. They are afraid they might get put on a list or profiled. They assume others are writing so why should they. People just do not want to get involved in anything anymore. We all have it at some level. I was born in the sixties, a child in the seventies and a teenager in the eighties. It seems to me people started to get self absorbed in the nineties. Either way this is what is happening.
May 6th, 2009 03:17 PM
We call them sheep not just because we are armed and they are not.
I know not what this "overkill" means.
Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.
May 6th, 2009 03:27 PM
Bunny, what you have just learned (or, really, reminded yourself) is something that will be true in spades if you ever find yourself using your concealed weapon for self-defense in a public space (that is, thwart a Stop-N-Rob heist or save somebody from a mugging)---you will, by sheer force of personality and will, have to make the bystanders do things to help, like call the police and send for an ambulance. You will have to stop idiots from walking over to the wounded badguy, thus inadvertently offering themselves up as potential hostages.
I don't think the average person is scared to death of law suits. Rather, I think there is a weird combination of 'Not My Problem' (so they don't help) and an expectation of being constantly entertained (so they stop and look). I think the latter is what makes the former obvious---twenty years ago you just might have been the first person to stop, so you wouldn't know about the six others with their thumbs up their butts. Heck, maybe the other six were busy taking cell phone video and uploading it to YouTube...
“What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia
SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.
May 6th, 2009 04:45 PM
"The LORD saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time." -- Gen. 6:5
Originally Posted by Bunny
"Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood." -- Gen. 8:21
It's been this way since Adam took a bite, Bunny. Every once in a while, we're given a reprieve -- but by & large, every man (or woman) thinks only of himself and what will benefit him. Those who think of others and are willing to put themselves in harm's way for the sake of strangers are acting contrary to (fallen) human nature.
for going against the flow. Folks like you make the world a better place. But until something radically drastic happens ... it won't ever be an excellent selfless place. People aren'r naturally wired like that.
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