I think I figured out the new administrations health plan. - Page 2

I think I figured out the new administrations health plan.

This is a discussion on I think I figured out the new administrations health plan. within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Pure Kustom Anybody remember the movie "Logans Run"? 50 seems to be the magic number........ That's funny. When I read the title ...

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Thread: I think I figured out the new administrations health plan.

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array PNUT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure Kustom View Post
    Anybody remember the movie "Logans Run"?

    50 seems to be the magic number........

    That's funny. When I read the title of your post I started thinking the same thing.

    I have 9 years...hope I make it that long.


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    This thread has been infiltrated by left wing commie socialists!

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by bbqgrill View Post
    I realize that many people believe health care and insurance of payment is a right and that the government is responsible and obligated to fulfill that service as a right; I firmly and completely disagree and there is no argument or discussion that will alter my opinion on the subject.
    So thanks for trying, but out of courtesy I will engage your viewpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    What would you have done if the docs wouldn't work out a plan, or if there was absolutely no way you could ever pay off the expense? What would you have done if instead of tonsils which required a one shot fix, it was a chronic condition that took every dime you had?
    Hmmm, chronic, every dime, still it is my problem. I pray and do the right things to mitigate the possibility, including choosing my spouse who is also healthy and who is from a healthy family.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    You are correct. It is an individual's responsibility to pay for health care and everything else, but there is no reason why we can not pool the risk. We pool the risk with mandatory auto insurance. Why not, as one possibility, pool the risk with mandatory catastrophic coverage?
    Auto insurance is not provided or managed by the government I do not see the corollary. As for pooling the risk, you can if you want, you can start a health care co-op. I do not in any way want the government involved in subsidizing or managing my health. There are many very inexpensive major medical plans available we were on one for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Why is it, if government is so bad, that Medicare works well and its overhead is about 1-3% depending on which pundit you listen to, but private policies have overheads which range upward of 20%
    I've never looked into Medicare; I have heard old people grumble about the service. If you say so, I have never looked at the overhead costs for either private or Medicare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    If private insurance were working, we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?
    Sure we would, as long as the political powers continue to tell Americans that health care is a right then there are those who will demand the government provides healthcare. I have had private healthcare for nearing 20 years now through at least 8 or 9 companies, no complaints period. The notion that we have a healthcare system is flawed; we should not have a system, it is a private service and should be treated as such.

    Hopyard, you and I are diametrically opposed in our view as to what services the government aught to provide, so Iíll leave it at that; further discussion is pointless.

    Back to the OP funny stuff; Loganís Run.


    Cheers,
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  4. #19
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    Just asking, not to be contentious

    Quote Originally Posted by bbqgrill View Post

    Auto insurance is not provided or managed by the government I do not see the corollary. As for pooling the risk, you can if you want, you can start a health care co-op. I do not in any way want the government involved in subsidizing or managing my health. There are many very inexpensive major medical plans available we were on one for a while.
    Do they pay when needed or do they drop you fast as they can?

    I know folks who could not get insurance in the private individual market, or if they found insurance at all, it covered very little. This is unacceptable and needs some sort of change.

    I've never looked into Medicare; I have heard old people grumble about the service. If you say so, I have never looked at the overhead costs for either private or Medicare.
    Please take a look at the appropriate web sites and study the issue. The differences in overhead are incredible.

    Sure we would, as long as the political powers continue to tell Americans that health care is a right then there are those who will demand the government provides healthcare. I have had private healthcare for nearing 20 years now through at least 8 or 9 companies, no complaints period. The notion that we have a healthcare system is flawed; we should not have a system, it is a private service and should be treated as such.
    I'm fascinated by the fact that there is so much opposition to a government run insurance program, much of due to assertion that there it would be socialism. I didn't here that complaint when the insurance industry fought hard and lobbied Congress to take over flood insurance. Are you aware that there are presently no private providers of flood insurance? Not to be contentious, if it is OK for Uncle to handle flood insurance, why not medical insurance also?
    Is there a real difference, or is it just that one is a cash cow for the industry and the other was a loser? Is it that private companies can get away with dumping their unprofitable business on Uncle, but will fight like heck to retain their profitable ones? Even if they are doing a lousy job or maintain their profitablility by doing a lousy job?

    Hopyard, you and I are diametrically opposed in our view as to what services the government aught to provide, so Iíll leave it at that; further discussion is pointless.
    Back to the OP funny stuff; Loganís Run.

    Cheers,
    Maybe further discussion is pointless, but I'm just trying to understand your viewpoint. I've had private insurance most of my life. Some companies were really good, some really bad. But one thing I know, it is indisputable, for far too many there is no insurance available and if it is available the payout won't keep you out of bankruptcy if a disaster happens. It certainly would be best if government could stay out of it, but some things are simply not done well or done at all by private enterprise. Those things then must be done by government or by true non-profits.

  5. #20
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    Can you offer a practical solution or just call names?

    Quote Originally Posted by ErnieNWillis View Post
    This thread has been infiltrated by left wing commie socialists!
    Can you offer a practical solution, or just call names?

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    I'm with Hopyard on this one. Our healthcare system is broken, and as much as it currently costs us we still have people with no insurance. Not to mention the people that have insurance but are denied care because of the fine print or cost cutting measures.

    These scare tactics about the costs of government run healthcare don't mention how much we currently spend. Right now I pay around $400 a month for my family's health plan. My employer pays for the plan too. I don't know the exact number, but it's my understanding that they pay more than I do. Even if they paid the same, that's about $10K a year. I'm sure some people pay more than I do, and some less but that's a nice round number to use as an average.

    What if that all of that money went to pay for a national healthcare system? Would it even cost that much? Probably not. Under our current system we're already paying for uninsured patients. People get treated without insurance all of the time. And if they can't pay for it, there is enough overhead from what the rest of us pay that it covers the losses. Do you really think that hospitals and doctor's offices lose money? How much money could be saved by hospitals not having to hire so many non medical personell to handle the billing? How much more money could be saved by not having to support the entire health insurance industry as well as the doctors?

    With the argument that you don't want a bureaucrat deciding your care, we already have that. Most of the extra billions of dollars we pay to the health insurance industry is spent on non medically trained people that decide what procedures that will be paid and which ones won't.
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  7. #22
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    They should do away with medi-care, SSI, and medical insurance all together.

    Those programs interfere with the market and distort pices. Because as an example, I cannot afford to pay $21k to have my apendix removed, but if I have insurance, suddenly I can "afford it" therefore the medical system can charge that much.

    If people all had to pay out of pocket, then the price would be limited to what folks could afford. True supply and demand. Demand would fall for high priced care and the result would be a decrease in prices until equilibrium is reached.


    It worked that way for hundreds of years, until the state decided to get involved. Suddenly a huge pool of money was available through government programs (medicare and SSI ponzi schemes). Prices went through the roof and suddenly people could not afford to get sick unless they had insurance, which threw in another disroportiantely large pool of money into the mix and further allowed prices to keep rising.

    GRnated, under a self pay system, not all people could afford the same treatment, the rich would be able to afford more than the poor, but it will always be that way. The upside would be that the prices overall would drop and the average person would be able to afford most typical treatments that are necessary. That is the only way to solve the problem, short of a total government controlled nanny state sytstem, which WE CANNOT AFFORD.

    It might be a nice idea, that makes people feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but the fact is that Medicade, medicare, and SSI are waht is bankrupting this country now. ( see this chart - http://perotcharts.com/category/chal...harts/page/12/) Adding more people to the rols is only going to make things worse.

    If you don't believe me, listen to what the comptroller had to say about the presciption drug benfit that was added under the supposedly "conservative" Bush admin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs

    Spoiled Americans need to realize that our country is bankrupt and we had better start cutting back on all of this spending or we are doomed. The me first, buy now pay later attitude; or even worse, the someone else should pay for me to go to the doctor attitude, is going to be our downfall. Becuase that someone else always ends up being YOU and your kids and grandkids.

    It is shocking that people on this board who are typically all about personal responsibility (ie. arming them selves to take care of their security, rather than waiting for the government to protect them) are so ready to forego that same responsibility for the promise of state handouts when they go to the doctor.
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  8. #23
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    a bureaucrat deciding your care

    Quote Originally Posted by morintp View Post
    With the argument that you don't want a bureaucrat deciding your care, we already have that. Most of the extra billions of dollars we pay to the health insurance industry is spent on non medically trained people that decide what procedures that will be paid and which ones won't.
    Indeed. That is why so many (if not all) private insurance companies demand pre-approval for hospitalization and many medical procedures. By doing pre-approvals they are able to insert a dreaded bureaucrat right into the process and overrule your doc. Those who raise this particular reason for objecting to any form of a government operated system are missing the point: the problem already exists.

    My personal experience has been that an insurance company bureaucrat did deny care two doctors recommended independently. The appeal process was insane. A person could die long before getting the dispute into court. Funny though, it turned out the bureaucrat was right, and the two docs were wrong, and that nurse who turned down the pre-approval may have saved me a lot of trouble--it can cut both ways.

  9. #24
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    I almost had a heart attack when Obama admitted that the Lawyers were part of the problem with health care a week or two ago.

    The real problem with our health care system is not the doctors or the pharmaceutical companies it is the Lawyers. When a doctor sees you he has to keep his fees high because of malpractice insurance rates, those rates have to be high because of the Malpractice suits for frivolous things. The doctors were told in a news conference by Obama to try not to do as many CAT SCANS and MRIís under health care because it is expensive last week, if the doctor misses some small thing the lawyers will attack, so he has to do the expensive CATís and MRIís to protect him from a malpractice suit.

    The Pharmaceutical companies have incredibly high insurance rates because of (and one of the primary crooks involved was John Edwards) lawyers shopping for friendly districts to bring class action lawsuits for millions that only the lawyers see. If you want to make health care affordable you do not need nationalized rationing of health care you need tort reform.
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  10. #25
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    Tort reform did nothing here in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by InspectorGadget View Post
    I If you want to make health care affordable you do not need nationalized rationing of health care you need tort reform.
    Tort reform accomplished nothing here except to make redress of real complaints impossible. Med-mal tort reform was the "cause" of prior legislative sessions here in Texas. The results have been unspectacular as far as cost control goes; and awful as far as patient protection.

    Should we really continue with tort reform when all evidence is that patients receive the standard of care only 50% of the time?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Tort reform accomplished nothing here except to make redress of real complaints impossible. Med-mal tort reform was the "cause" of prior legislative sessions here in Texas. The results have been unspectacular as far as cost control goes; and awful as far as patient protection.

    Should we really continue with tort reform when all evidence is that patients receive the standard of care only 50% of the time?
    That is the problem with the legal system, if a lawyer does not like your states laws for a class action lawsuit; he just goes next door to Louisiana to bring the lawsuit. Lawyers "shop" for the best district to bring the lawsuit to bring in the most money. Tort reform has to be at the national level or it is pointless.
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  12. #27
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    sgtD you have it 100%

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Can you offer a practical solution, or just call names?
    Why on earth would you think I was referring to you?

  14. #29
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  15. #30
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    My view point

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Maybe further discussion is pointless, but I'm just trying to understand your viewpoint. I've had private insurance most of my life. Some companies were really good, some really bad. But one thing I know, it is indisputable, for far too many there is no insurance available and if it is available the payout won't keep you out of bankruptcy if a disaster happens. It certainly would be best if government could stay out of it, but some things are simply not done well or done at all by private enterprise. Those things then must be done by government or by true non-profits.
    Simply, I do not want the government involved; as for flood insurance the government ought not be involved in providing that service. The unfortunate reality of health care is that the state of the art of medical care has evolved to the point where there are dramatic and incredible procedures that are beyond affordability for some people. That said medical care is a service not a right, if you can't pay for the service that is a personal problem not a government problem. One of our governments founding principles is to "provide for the general welfare" not for any specific individuals welfare.

    Regards,
    "To believe that social reforms can eradicate evil altogether is to forget that evil is a protean creature, forever assuming a new shape when deprived of an old one." - SAT

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