I think I figured out the new administrations health plan.

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Thread: I think I figured out the new administrations health plan.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Pure Kustom's Avatar
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    I think I figured out the new administrations health plan.

    Anybody remember the movie "Logans Run"?

    50 seems to be the magic number........

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    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Wink

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    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure Kustom View Post
    Anybody remember the movie "Logans Run"?

    50 seems to be the magic number........
    In the movie the age was 30; in the book it was 21.

    Of course, most politicians are over 50...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    In the movie the age was 30; in the book it was 21.

    Of course, most politicians are over 50...
    Yes but the Washington Elitists have their own health and retirement plans.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    In the movie the age was 30; in the book it was 21.

    Of course, most politicians are over 50...
    True, but they have written it in that congress is exempt from the proposed national health care reform. Well isn't that nice of them.
    They say it will be good for us but it's not good enough for them. Ya think Kennedy would have gotten the recent medical surgery and care that he did if he had been covered under a 'national universal health care program'? Don't think so.
    I remember when obama was campaigning, he was saying that he wanted the people to have 'the same health care plan' that they had in congress. Of course that was just until he got into office.

    It's sort of like we're stuck with the broken and almost out of money social security system that congress has stolen from for over 25 years while they in congress have their own well funded golden parachute pension system (even though almost everyone of them is a millionaire).

    We could probably learn a lesson from 'the people' in Iran.

    Bottom line is, we and the states had better wake up and reign in this out of control and corrupt fed government.
    Just my 2 cents.

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    Member Array UnklFungus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by p7fanatic View Post
    true, but they have written it in that congress is exempt from the proposed national health care reform. Well isn't that nice of them.
    They say it will be good for us but it's not good enough for them. Ya think kennedy would have gotten the recent medical surgery and care that he did if he had been covered under a 'national universal health care program'? Don't think so.
    I remember when obama was campaigning, he was saying that he wanted the people to have 'the same health care plan' that they had in congress. Of course that was just until he got into office.

    It's sort of like we're stuck with the broken and almost out of money social security system that congress has stolen from for over 25 years while they in congress have their own well funded golden parachute pension system (even though almost everyone of them is a millionaire).

    We could probably learn a lesson from 'the people' in iran.

    bottom line is, we and the states had better wake up and reign in this out of control and corrupt fed government.
    just my 2 cents.

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    Ridiculous proposition

    Quote Originally Posted by P7fanatic View Post
    True, but they have written it in that congress is exempt from the proposed national health care reform.
    Is that so? How do you know that? There is no bill yet. So nothing is written in.

    They say it will be good for us but it's not good enough for them.
    Really, who is they? Show me the text of the legislation you think says that.

    Ya think Kennedy would have gotten the recent medical surgery and care that he did if he had been covered under a 'national universal health care program'?
    Why not? Everyday, very ordinary people get their care through a government run program, Medicare. It works quite well. If nothing else, he is at an age where by law his primary insurance is Medicare, same as everyone else. There's no exemption for Critters.

    No doubt, the senator as lots of other people have additional insurance; likely in his case purchased through the private insurance industry which contracts to offer insurance within the Federal Health Benefits Program---the health insurance offered to Federal Employees and Critters. It is, decent, but not exceptional insurance. In any case, Medicare and (some of the companies within the) FEHB work. The former is far more cost effective.

    Don't think so.
    Duh, mere speculation.

    It's sort of like we're stuck with the broken and almost out of money social security system that congress has stolen from for over 25 years while they in congress have their own well funded golden parachute pension system (even though almost everyone of them is a millionaire).
    Not factual. What golden parachute do you think they get? Tell me the specifics.

    We could probably learn a lesson from 'the people' in Iran.
    And how relevant to the topic is that remark?

    The private insurance system we have now is an utter failure and a disgrace. Maybe it can be fixed. Probably it can't. Besides, any insurance system which, as our present one does eats, 20-30% of the health care dollar is insane. Ask yourself, how many clerks your doctor has to employee just to file with innumerable companies, many of which will deny and deny legitimate claims, fail to make timely payments, make partial payments, and otherwise game the system. If we can't get a single payer system we should at least have a much better control on the overhead costs of the crazy quilt approach we now have.

    If you think the present system is just peachy, wait till you know someone, or you yourself become someone who loses a job and then must secure health insurance from the present private system. Wait till you actually try to use your insurance and see what percent of the claims get denied --oh yes, there will be fine print that means something quite different from what you thought it meant.

  9. #8
    Member Array UnklFungus's Avatar
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    I sent an email to Senator Baucus I am quoting below. I will also post his response to it.

    First off, I came across as harsh on my previous email, the reason being is my concerns regarding this proposed system. I spoke before I thought things through, and you have my apology.

    I have some concerns regarding this new health care plan and I would love to get an actual response to them, not just some pre-written canned response sent out to every person that emails about it.

    My first concern is that this is a socialist system. I know our health care system is messed up and absolutely out of control price wise. I know this because my mother lives in Mexico, and she can buy her medication for less in Mexico than she could pay her co-pay in the US.

    I am on the VA healthcare system myself and my kids are on CHIP, but my wife is uninsured. I would love to have her covered by some insurance, but it is ridiculously expensive. So are doctor's visits and especially dental. So while government insurance sounds good, I am willing to pay for her healthcare if it means that our country stays as it was Constitutionally established.

    My second concern is that this proposal is incredibly long and with it being 1200 pages long, I don't see how anyone can have adequate time to read it before it is forced to a vote as was the "Stimulus Plan". This needs to be extremely carefully considered before it is talked about.

    My third concern is privacy and anonymity in this program. What are our rights as a patient, and what ever happened to patient doctor confidentiality? Will this go to the wayside as so many of our rights already?
    In this current environment it seems that our rights are being eroded really quickly, Our rights aren't supposed to eroded at all. Additionally I am concerned that our gun rights are going to get eliminated or severely restricted under this plan. I totally agree that there are persons who should not be allowed to have access to weapons. But to take the right of self defense and hunting etc away from law abiding citizens is wrong. Our boys didn't die to have this and so many others eliminated. I didn't serve in the Navy to have this happen, nor did my father nor my grandfather, who was in WWII.

    I am also concerned with the cost of this plan. How much further will this great expense erode our countries dollar and value? With all of the billions that we have borrowed from China and others, only to have them pull their investment money out of the US as we have become a bad investment and now a risk, this concerns me greatly. What will be here for my boys when they grow up? What taxes will they be saddled with? What will happen with our economy which by all indications around me, isn't recovering at all. In fact two more mills closed here putting 150 more people out of work. Do you really think we can absorb another trillion dollars at this time with revenues as far down as they are right now?

    These are some of my concerns, the big ones at least. I really do want to help people and I don't have a problem paying some tax to a good efficient system, but to have this forced upon us under penalty of law makes us no better than the country our forefathers left to establish this great country.

    If I could please get an actual response to this, I could become a proponent of this instead of an opponent, not that I am probably much of a concern for you, in reality.

    Thanks for your time in reading this, hopefully by you and not a staffer.

    Randy R. Lebel

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    Great letter Unk, but a couple of comments for you

    Quote Originally Posted by UnklFungus View Post
    My first concern is that this is a socialist system. I know our health care system is messed up and absolutely out of control price wise. I know this because my mother lives in Mexico, and she can buy her medication for less in Mexico than she could pay her co-pay in the US.
    Why does that concern you? If you could be better off under a "socialist system," why would you object? There is nothing in our law
    that prohibits "socialism." There is nothing inherently evil about about socialism, any more so than any other "ism." How about concerning oneself with us (the body politic) getting a practical resolution that works without worrying about the ideology?

    I am on the VA healthcare system myself and my kids are on CHIP, but my wife is uninsured.
    Would you not be better off if everyone in your family somehow had the same program, and your wife was insured?

    Isn't that what the present reform efforts should be aiming for?

    I would love to have her covered by some insurance, but it is ridiculously expensive. So are doctor's visits and especially dental. So while government insurance sounds good, I am willing to pay for her healthcare if it means that our country stays as it was Constitutionally established.
    Isn't it tragic that someone in your shoes can not have health insurance today for your wife? Of course whatever passes must be constitutional. Do you think Congress would pass an unconstitutional bill and that it would be signed? Maybe, but there are some pretty good constitutional authorities in Congress, especially in the Senate.

    My second concern is that this proposal is incredibly long and with it being 1200 pages long, I don't see how anyone can have adequate time to read it before it is forced to a vote as was the "Stimulus Plan". This needs to be extremely carefully considered before it is talked about.
    It does need to be carefully considered, which is why everyone including us is now having this discussion.

    My third concern is privacy and anonymity in this program. What are our rights as a patient, and what ever happened to patient doctor confidentiality? Will this go to the wayside as so many of our rights already?

    Good questions that no one can answer till there is a final product up for debate. But as for privacy rights, they have already gone out the window. Many if not all of us routinely sign them away when conduct an array of ordinary business activities or fail to respond to those op-out privacy policy notices we all get.

    In this current environment it seems that our rights are being eroded really quickly, Our rights aren't supposed to eroded at all. Additionally I am concerned that our gun rights are going to get eliminated or severely restricted under this plan. I totally agree that there are persons who should not be allowed to have access to weapons. But to take the right of self defense and hunting etc away from law abiding citizens is wrong.
    This is a potential issue, but the reform efforts are about health care, not about guns and gun control.
    The same concerns apply as relates to smoking, drinking, eating, exercise.

    Will a government program infringe on your rights? Well, private programs already do infringe on rights?

    Employer sponsored programs have tiered fees for folks who don't lose weight, or who smoke, and exclusions for folks who engage in "dangerous activities." Private policies already infringe on rights-or rather individual freedoms.

    Will the government programs be any worse? Who knows. So far, there is nothing in the existing Federal programs that is comparable to the restrictions forced on consumers in the private market.

    VA, Medicare, and FEHB, don't presently concern themselves with life style issues in the way some private plans do.

    I am also concerned with the cost of this plan. How much further will this great expense erode our countries dollar and value?
    And how much further erosion will we have because if we do nothing our companies can't successfully compete with manufacturers in countries which do have national plans?

    With all of the billions that we have borrowed from China and others, only to have them pull their investment money out of the US as we have become a bad investment and now a risk, this concerns me greatly.
    As it should.

    quote] What will be here for my boys when they grow up? What taxes will they be saddled with? What will happen with our economy which by all indications around me, isn't recovering at all. [/quote]

    I think this concerns everyone, and the causes of the problem and the solutions are extremely complex. However, keep in mind that through the ages we have had innumerable projects and programs that were said we couldn't afford, and which in the end greatly improved our economy. Real health care reform I think is one such.
    Just imagine the personal catastrophe your family would face if your wife became ill? Would we not save money in the long run keeping her well if possible? Would your family not be better off? Would your children not be better off?

    quote]
    In fact two more mills closed here putting 150 more people out of work. Do you really think we can absorb another trillion dollars at this time with revenues as far down as they are right now? [/quote]

    The trillion + being talked about is in a certain way a phony number that is being used to distract, and to bring our attention to the wrong conclusion.

    The figure is a 10 year figure. It amortizes to about 150 billion per year. That is about 450 dollars per person per year.

    Presently, we spend about $ 6-7000 per capita per year on health care. $450 is a tiny percent of the total presently spent for health care. One would hope that new efficiencies (eliminating the overhead incurred by the present patchwork) and reducing the very expensive care folks need when they don't get timely primary care would make up some of this.

    These are some of my concerns, the big ones at least. I really do want to help people and I don't have a problem paying some tax to a good efficient system,
    Randy R. Lebel
    Me too, Randy.

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    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Assisted suicide is becoming legal in so many states now. The so called "Death with dignity". This is a cost cutting measure for public funded health care.
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
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    Socialism doesn't work. It's never worked and horribly failed in every country it's been tried in.
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    But thank God, I ain't what I used to be,
    And, Praise God, I ain't what I'm gonna be!

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    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    I have been uninsured, my wife has been uninsured, my kids have been uninsured. Years ago one of my kids needed medical service, we set up payment terms with the doctors and hospital and paid for the service (tonsils). I have coverage now through my employment.

    Anyway, my position remains unchanged medical care is a service, not a right, insurance is a service not a right. We as individuals are responsible for paying for services we need or want. I don't want any part of the government in my bedroom or examination room nor do I want to fund the government in it's efforts to invade others bedrooms or examination rooms.

    This is also my stance as related to personal safety, I am responsible, not my government. I don't smoke but I don't think the goverment should restrict people from smoking; I wear seatbelts but hate the fact that states have made it law that I must wear seatbelts.

    I realize that many people believe health care and insurance of payment is a right and that the government is responsible and obligated to fulfill that service as a right; I firmly and completely disagree and there is no arguement or discussion that will alter my opinion on the subject.
    Last edited by bbqgrill; June 29th, 2009 at 01:29 PM.
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    Does the present system work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
    Socialism doesn't work. It's never worked and horribly failed in every country it's been tried in.
    O.K. Clearly our present system by which people obtain health insurance, or not, does not work either.

    Is there a solution that you would find satisfactory?

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    What would you have done if?

    Quote Originally Posted by bbqgrill View Post
    I have been uninsured, my wife has been uninsured, my kids have been uninsured. Years ago one of my kids needed medical service, we set up payment trrms with the doctors and hospital and paid for the service (tonsils).
    What would you have done if the docs wouldn't work out a plan, or if there was absolutely no way you could ever pay off the expense? What would you have done if instead of tonsils which required a one shot fix, it was a chronic condition that took every dime you had?

    You are correct. It is an individual's responsibility to pay for health care and everything else, but there is no reason why we can not pool the risk. We pool the risk with mandatory auto insurance. Why not, as one possibility, pool the risk with mandatory catastrophic coverage?

    There is a related issue that isn't being discussed. An option to a government run program would be strict controls on the quality of private policies issued. The downside, that would still leave the docs and hospitals scrambling to deal with dozens if not hundreds of different companies. This aspect of our present system, which would be eliminated with any form of single payer, or even with a unified claims process, is what drives a great deal of the excess costs of health care.

    Why is it, if government is so bad, that Medicare works well and its overhead is about 1-3% depending on which pundit you listen to, but private policies have overheads which range upward of 20%

    If private insurance were working, we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?

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    Hopyard, exposing the false-ness and fiction on DC! Thank you for your informative rebuttals and calling BS when you see it! You're my hero for the day!
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