Group Think! Duration of SHTF! - Page 2

Group Think! Duration of SHTF!

This is a discussion on Group Think! Duration of SHTF! within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Water and MRE's ok Have a coal stove and a few tons of coal (needs elec-see below) Need more ammo and meds Need plastic, tape ...

View Poll Results: What is the Duration of the SHTF Scenario You Plan For?

Voters
88. You may not vote on this poll
  • Less Than a Week

    14 15.91%
  • One to Three Weeks

    39 44.32%
  • A Month or Two

    14 15.91%
  • More than Two Months

    14 15.91%
  • Whoops! I Forgot to Plan!

    7 7.95%
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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array .45acp's Avatar
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    Water and MRE's ok
    Have a coal stove and a few tons of coal (needs elec-see below)
    Need more ammo and meds
    Need plastic, tape and wood
    Should stock extra dog food
    Have 2 hybrid cars with tanks kept full and heard there are power inverters for about 350 each to supply home power in an emergency so should look into that.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    bout a month or 2 by that time i will be so far retreated into the woods it wont matter how long it goes on

  3. #18
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    For in-house SHTF survival, we can go for around a month or more. We've got plenty of canned goods, pasta and rice. We also have a nice grill. We have water purification and filtration, so we can take water from the lake behind our home. There's woods behind the house, so I can always build a fire, too.

    Considering what happened during Katrina - those with generators were held under siege by those who didn't - I've decided to maintain a low profile and not have one (we really don't have room to store one, anyway, unless we leave it on the back porch).

    For SHTF involving bugging out, our hiking/camping gear is always ready to go, just add water. We've got food to last around 2-3 days. Mrshonts' car gets better mileage, so if we drive out, it's his car and I'll siphon my tank. I also have no problem walking. I'd head south to mom n' dads where we can live off the land the old fashioned way.

    We've got plenty of guns and ammo.
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowdoctor
    ....hmmm....now my mind is racing. I will get back to you all soon.... hmmm. I also have two small kids. 3 and 1....so that puts another spin on things....This is going to take some deep thought.
    Disposable DIAPERS!

    Jeez - its been a couple of years.....

  5. #20
    Member Array yoshi's Avatar
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    All I have is what I assume you guys call a "Bug out bag" camping gear, an SKS, plus I know edible plants. I pretty much don't see it as SHTF unless society is in collapse, and then I am heading to the hills. I've seen storms (Ice and snow) that shut you in for a week, that isn't SHTF.
    Live Free or Die

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoshi
    I've seen storms (Ice and snow) that shut you in for a week, that isn't SHTF.


    It all a matter of "degree" and "shades of gray". Here in Texas, a snow storm that shut us down for a week would be BIG SHTF !! ( )

    I do understand though, because I tend to think of SHTF as something major - pandemic, conus power failure, something like that, but it could also be more localized and discrete. For instance, a major tornado in Texas could disrupt a lot of things for weeks, IF it happened to hit something that would snowball. A snow storm of New England magnitude (however unlikely) would be a problem for folks that don't have full pantries.

    Katrina was a SHTF if you lived in the 9th Ward, I think, and Watts for the folks in LA back in those days. But those were localized SHTF's. I guess I'm rambling, its just my take on it, so I'll head off...

  7. #22
    Member Array yoshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock

    Here in Texas, a snow storm that shut us down for a week would be BIG SHTF !!
    All seriousness aside: Actually the only plausible disaster for us here to plan for is Bird-flu pandemic. Two Docs I know talked at a breakfast I went to, and our town has no plan. The States plan is to cut us off - they can't afford to reach us if its as bad as some say - (I guess Nat Guard Check point on highway or something).

    The local hospitals plan is to lock down, Docs and family only. That would truly be every man for himself. I don't have any idea how long it could last.
    Live Free or Die

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoshi
    All seriousness aside: Actually the only plausible disaster for us here to plan for is Bird-flu pandemic. Two Docs I know talked at a breakfast I went to, and our town has no plan. The States plan is to cut us off - they can't afford to reach us if its as bad as some say - (I guess Nat Guard Check point on highway or something).

    The local hospitals plan is to lock down, Docs and family only. That would truly be every man for himself. I don't have any idea how long it could last.
    That's a pretty big deal - cutting the community off from the hospital! So much for the people with medical need? My wife and I have discussed our plan in a pandemic - lots of food in pantry; isolate ourselves physically (easy - we're in the country); limit trips into town to absolute minimum (big, well stocked pantry); we're crazy as loons about washing our hands anyway; just pretty much common sense stuff including surgical masks, lots of soap and Betadine, etc.

    I'd say that's a real SHTF - in all seriousness.

  9. #24
    Member Array yoshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock
    I'd say that's a real SHTF - in all seriousness.
    I agree, I just haven't got any means to really plan, if we are quarantined into town, beyond trying to sneak out or applying standard survival tactics into a small town setting. High probablilty I woud be helping some friends of mine with a big place, but its in town too - or skipping town with them on their boat.

    Of course sneaking out of a town that is quarantined raises some ethical/moral questions that I am not sure about.
    Live Free or Die

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array older gunner's Avatar
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    If at home, I have a generator and could manage a month with no outside help. I have MRE's, water and plenty of staples, plus a small 2 burner hot plate that the generator would power, so could also boil water if needed. I keep 40 gals of gasoline in the hurricane season. Since I live in Florida, evacuation could be required, so I have two weeks supply I can put in the car If we have to head out. We could live out of the car with what I have if needed. Naturally, I have plenty of arms and ammo.

  11. #26
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    For those that have generators, may I ask what size, what fuel, fuel consumption, and what would the gens. be used for?

    Thanks.

  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    For those that have generators, may I ask what size, what fuel, fuel consumption, and what would the gens. be used for?

    Thanks.
    The one we have is 5000W, It's small enough that I can put it in the pickup by myself, about what you see a lot of contractors using.

    It's a Coleman, 8hour extended run with a 5 gal tank, runs on gasoline. The couple time we have had to use it, short term, I run an extension cord through the back door doogie door and pulg in the fridge and run a couple of lights, sometimes the Microwave. Maybe the TV for news. That hardley breaks an idle. After all night of that, It still had half a tank. It will push the water pump, 350' deep but not the hot water heater or the stove. The hot water heater did keep it's load of water warm for several days.

    We baught it about 8 years ago, I use it all over the farmette we have too. Paid about $500 or $550 I think, at Sams. Don't wait for STHF to look, THen the price doubles and sometimes triples, or you have to fright for it.
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
    If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    It may sound like too much, but I'm looking at getting a 13KW generator. One problem will be for this, or any size generator, is how much fuel?

    Project for my next day off: Learn what I can about fuel storage, for gasoline and propane. What size tank (for either) can be used, what regs apply, and what will the cost be to install?

    Right now, seriously considering a tri-fuel generator. It will run on gasoline, propane, or natural gas, with no modification.

    I've had to deal with only a few days of no electricity in the past, but have seen near-by, people without electric for a week or more. A little further away, several months!

    Right now, I'm thinking maybe setting up for two weeks, with no re-supply.

    This is going to bite the budget, BIG TIME. I've been in Florida for since the mid 60's, so I know its not a matter of "If," but "When."

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  14. #29
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    mm,

    I can see your rationale; you live in a hurricane prone area. I like the 13kW size myself, but have since reconsidered. 13kW is going to consume a lot of fuel, esp. at full load.

    It would be worth considering providing for a smaller demand (less energy) for a longer period of time by using a 7kW generator. If you look at one of my posts in "Propane refrigerators for SHTF???" , I listed a chart that indicates how much power is needed for what. I've got two fridges and a freezer. According to the chart, it takes 2200 watts to start up and 700 watt to run. The 7kW is enough to start all three at the same time with a little power to spare.

    The 7kW costs considerably less than the 13kW and will run much longer on the same amount of fuel. Another consideration is the fact that these things have to run all the time, in order to be "on-line" when needed. For example, we don't know when a fridge and freezer may need to come on. We either have to turn the gen on and let it run, which consumes lots of fuel, or just turn it on several times a day to let everything catch up and then turn it off.

    For propane as fuel, my cost for a 500 gallon tank, that holds 400 gallons of LP is $1100 plus a little set up charge, plus the costs of gas line. Filling the tank would cost $1.649/gallon or $660.

    A 10.5kW gen. w/honda GX-620 engine, consumes 2.2 gal/hr at full load I don't know what a 13kW would consume but probably if proportional, it would be around 2.7 gal/hr. That's $4.45/hr.

    I haven't looked it up but again, if proportional, a 7kW gen should consume about 1.5 gal/hr at full load or about $2.47/hr.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    Tangle,

    Excellent points on the wisdom of "going smaller." It does come down to what you really want to do.

    My situation is kind of complicated by the fact that I will have to power a 4 inch well for water, and the heat pump/air conditioner is a bit of a health issue for my wife. For that, I could put a "window-rattler" in the bedroom, and just run a ceiling fan elsewhere.

    The other "complication" is that I have Koi ponds. Too much money swimming around to watch it die, too many bones to eat. (Tie-dyed Carp, after all.) I know all the tricks to keeping them alive, but electricity makes it much easier.

    Anyway, looking at the generators at generatorsales.com, I've found several 13.5KW units that are "tri-fuel." They'll run on gasoline, LP gas, or natural gas. (Propane is LP gas, right?) No engine mods needed, just switch fuel lines they say.

    Talking LP, the 13.5 @ full load uses only 1.09 gal/hr, 3/4 load 0.79 gal/hr, and 1/2 load, just 0.62 gal/hr.

    About the same numbers for gasoline, a little more with natural gas.

    Our current propane consumption is only about 42 gals, every 3 months! That's for the water heater, stove w/oven, and clothes dryer. The tank we have now is a 125 gal. I'll be talking to the sales rep about trading that one in on a larger tank, not sure how big, but he'll be able to let me know if there's going to be any legal issues, but I doubt there will be.

    I'm starting to think its do-able! It's just going to come down to cost and how we are going to meet that initial cost. I see it as an "investment" of sorts, for the long run.

    Nice thing about it is that once it's in, and the "start-up" cost has been paid, our monthly gas bill will stay the same. We won't be using any more propane, just keep topping it off on the same schedule we're now one.

    Should know more, Monday or Tuesday.

    Got kind of a "trick" installation in mind, once done, it will be a "stealth operation" of sorts! I'll post some pics in this section of the Forums, when complete.

    Hey, THANKS for the feed-back!

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

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