Obese Account for Greatest Jump in Healthcare Spending...Jumped 80% in 5 years! - Page 2

Obese Account for Greatest Jump in Healthcare Spending...Jumped 80% in 5 years!

This is a discussion on Obese Account for Greatest Jump in Healthcare Spending...Jumped 80% in 5 years! within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I heard on the radio today that poor people are much more prone to be obese because they cannot afford the healthier foods like fruits ...

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Thread: Obese Account for Greatest Jump in Healthcare Spending...Jumped 80% in 5 years!

  1. #16
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    I heard on the radio today that poor people are much more prone to be obese because they cannot afford the healthier foods like fruits and vegetables because fruit and veggies are too expensive.

    Will somebody PLEASE Tie That "Bull" up outside?

    They can only afford greasy double cheeseburgers and large orders of fries washed down with a king size Coke.


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There is a big difference. Smoking is a choice. Quitting is also mostly a choice. Notwithstanding the stuff about nicotine addiction.

    Obesity is not a choice. There are folks who drastically restrict their diets, exercise, and somehow nothing works. The calories in equals pounds on thing is nice in theory. And I understand the theory.

    But the reality is that some folks just can not lose weight until the surgery is done. They suffer from an illness which is way more than a lack of ordinary irresponsibility--which smoking is*
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    I will confess to enjoying my cigars. And since I'm not fat, let's tax the fat folks and drop the tobacco tax :-)
    The number of folks that truly have a metabolism or other sort of problem causing their obesity is a tiny fraction of the obese population. Most of them will tell you they have a medical issue, but very few really do. I know people that have had every medical test possible to find out why they're fat and don't believe the doctors that tell them there is nothing wrong. And then they complain about the doctor's lack of understanding while they are eating their supersized meal followed by the large hot fudge sundae.

    The sad reality is for most overweight people, it is a choice. Eating less and excercising will "cure" at least 90% of them.
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  3. #18
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    Not sure I agree but

    Quote Originally Posted by morintp View Post
    The number of folks that truly have a metabolism or other sort of problem causing their obesity is a tiny fraction of the obese population.

    The sad reality is for most overweight people, it is a choice. Eating less and excercising will "cure" at least 90% of them.
    I used to think precisely as you have stated above. But these days I have done a 180 on the issue. There is presently no adequate explanation for why diabetes disappears in folks who have had the stomach surgery. The metabolic disorder (diabetes is part of a triad of disorders called collectively metabolic disease) disappears very rapidly after the surgery and long before any weight is lost.

    What this tells me is that there is an aspect to obesity and the metabolic issues that go with it which we don't yet comprehend.

    It is easy to blame sick people for their illness.

    Now, I'm not talking about the individual who is 20 or 30 pounds too heavy, who simply has no self control. I'm talking about the grossly obese, the 300 pounder. They face so much ridicule and rejection and so many difficulties in life that if willpower could do it, it would get done.

    Again, with reference to the janitor where I used to work who I spoke of above, I watched him live on practically nothing and do weight loss programs under medical supervision time after time. It just didn't work. He could get some off, but never keep it off.

    Yeah, for myself, being about 20 lbs too heavy on a six foot frame, self control will do it. That isn't the type of problem I'm concerned with.

    Nor do I believe the problem is the availability of junk food.

    I am going to guess that in a couple of decades or less we will have an entirely knew understanding of the causes of obesity and be kicking ourselves in the head for viewpoints which are as invalid as we now hold bleeding with leeches.

    The old saying, for every complex problem there is a simple solution which is generally wrong, seems to apply to obesity. It is simplistic to
    hold that diet will solve the problem when diet has been proven to have nothing but transient benefits.

    And as for exercise, most people can't put in adequate time to knock off several hundred calories per day; and it is too easy to make up for the exercise-lost calories with the tiniest of eating indiscretion.

    So, cigar lover that I am, I'd rather have my cigars taxed than put a fee on those who I feel can not help themselves due to illness.

  4. #19
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    "Greatest Jump in Healthcare Spending" should have been "Ballooning of Healthcare Spending".

    There's more to it than meets the eye. Sure, one OUGHT to just eat less, but in addition to the protective metabolism (goes into starvation mode to preserve resources if you drastically reduce calories) there's all of the psychological baggage. It is darned hard, folks, to change one's basic character around. I'm working on it, but it ain't easy. And the worst part is that the folks who don't fight that particular battle often make light of the difficulties faced by those who do. (Cigarettes and alcohol have no attraction for me, but I don't beat up smokers and drinkers since I know how hard a time I have with my overeating.)

    I would encourage each of the slender folks out there to examine themselves for the bad habit(s) they've got, and suggest that you change. Why not? You know you ought to. Most likely you'll find that you won't be interested in doing so, or you'll try and be back into the bad habit within a very short time. Remember this next time you speak with someone who is morbidly obese, and be kind. Certainly be supportive and encouraging if they tell you they said 'no' to a milkshake - this may be trivial in light of the magnitude of their problem, but recognize that even small victories like this are hard won.

    And of COURSE it's my fault: I sought solace from food rather than God and have reaped the consequences. But now I'm faced with trying to change, and 50 years of doing things one way is hard to turn around. May God grant me the courage to take action, the stamina to continue, the blessing of success, and the humility to give Him credit for the results.

    Pray for us if that's the sort of thing you do, and for me in particular: 426 and wanting to be half the man I am.
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  5. #20
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    "I sought solace from food rather than God and have reaped the consequences. But now I'm faced with trying to change, and 50 years of doing things one way is hard to turn around. May God grant me the courage to take action, the stamina to continue, the blessing of success, and the humility to give Him credit for the results."

    You'll do it.

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    Paymeister, you'll do it. Do you know why I believe that? Because you have taken responsibility for your actions and are working to achieve your goals. You aren't hiding behind a cop-out or excuse. Kudos to you, I'm rooting for you!

    I do understand what you are talking about. It is very hard, but not many things worthwhile are easy. My vice is smoking. I've been trying to quit, but it's as hard as dieting. Which I'm trying to do now too. I gained 20 pounds in the 20 years since high school, and then I broke 5 ribs about a year ago. The following months of inactivity added another 20 pounds. My goal is to quit smoking and lose 30-40 pounds at the same time.

    Hopyard, maybe your janitor fell into that estimated 10% that have a true metabolic problem.

    Also, what stomach surgery cures diabetes? My brother has been getting daily insulin shots for 23 years. I'd love to look into it. He doesn't need any gastric bypass or anything like that though. He's built like a brick ****house. He's been doing physical labor since he was 12, first on a farm and then concrete. Now he owns a concrete company and cuts trees when its slow in the winter. Not all diabetics are overweight.
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  7. #22
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    It is reported that it is easier to quit Heroin than to quit smoking.
    It is not easy but, it's possible.

    I quit for 4 years and then I started back up again.
    Mostly because of some of you people on this forum.

    Just kidding...just kidding.

  8. #23
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    Gastric bypass and diabetes for morintp

    Quote Originally Posted by morintp View Post
    Paymeister, you'll do it. Do you know why I believe that? Because you have taken responsibility for your actions and are working to achieve your goals. You aren't hiding behind a cop-out or excuse. Kudos to you, I'm rooting for you!
    I agree that Paymeister has a decent chance of success and wish him luck. However, if he should fail, and is healthy enough for one of the surgical procedures, he should at least consider that and discuss it with his doc. But try hard first. Anytime you can achieve a goal without surgery you are coming out ahead.

    Hopyard, maybe your janitor fell into that estimated 10% that have a true metabolic problem.
    I don't know. His medical tests are all remarkably normal--or so he has told me. His weight loss programs have been under medical supervision. And he is highly motivated to succeed, determined is a better word. It just doesn't work.

    Also, what stomach surgery cures diabetes? My brother has been getting daily insulin shots for 23 years.
    Gastric bypass surgery has a profound effect on type 2 diabetes (insulin resistant). It believe it does not work on type 1 (insulin insufficiency). Since your brother is taking insulin, I'm going to guess he has type 1 diabetes.

    Also, at this point in where the science lies, no ethical surgeon would do a bypass on someone who is of normal weigh in an effort to treat the diabetes. Down the road in the not too distant future, the mechanism will be better understood and hopefully there will be new classes of medicine for treating diabetes.

    Anyway, my real concern here is that too many folks do not fully appreciate that being seriously overweight is a real illness, and not
    a mere life style choice.

    I guarantee you I couldn't put on 50 more pounds if I tried to force myself to do it. We have poorly understood mechanism that control
    our weight, or not. If I overeat one day, the next I am simply not hungry and eat half of what I normally do. That protective mechanism (and lots more) doesn't work in some people.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    Hmmmm. A little ironic. Wonder how many of the government "fat cats" were included in the survey
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  10. #25
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    One of those situations where it is impossible to uncover the statistic vs the fact. Assume as fact that health care costs have increased, and maybe that fact it is related to weight / diet.

    You can point to those who are low income "fat and lazy", and state they can't afford a better diet. However are these not the same people who can't afford health care. But how could they be the cause of increased healthcare if they can't afford healthcare coverage.

    Then you can point to the higher income "fat cats", who have the money for healthcare. They use the coverage they have, thus by using it, costs go up. But how fair is it to tell someone who has the funds and the coverage they can't use what they are paying for.

    In the end, none of it is "the problem." There is a greater sickness causing this and many other symptoms, be it energy use, failing bridges, pollution, etc. We are failing. Does not mean we will not get back on our feet.
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  11. #26
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    They are gearing up for the next step after nationalized health care: laws restricting what you can eat 'for the good of society'.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    One of those situations where it is impossible to uncover the statistic vs the fact. Assume as fact that health care costs have increased, and maybe that fact it is related to weight / diet.

    You can point to those who are low income "fat and lazy", and state they can't afford a better diet. However are these not the same people who can't afford health care. But how could they be the cause of increased healthcare if they can't afford healthcare coverage.

    Then you can point to the higher income "fat cats", who have the money for healthcare. They use the coverage they have, thus by using it, costs go up. But how fair is it to tell someone who has the funds and the coverage they can't use what they are paying for.

    In the end, none of it is "the problem." There is a greater sickness causing this and many other symptoms, be it energy use, failing bridges, pollution, etc. We are failing. Does not mean we will not get back on our feet.
    It is the same ploy used often with a little spin. Drive a wedge between a section of humanity to achieive a small gain. Then the next wedge comes out for the next section of humanity. So that you can get your own version of how the world ought to be.

    Example: Guns and firearms cause a large number of health costs due to shootings. Lets tax ammo and firearms, require licenses, permits, and more. So only the rich and responsible can have firearms.

    Another parable: When the MAN went after Jews, we just stood back and watch because we werent Jewish. Then the MAN went after Blacks, but that wasnt us. So we watched. Now the MAN is after US, why wont anyone help US?

    I agree in helping people make responsible choices in all parts of their lifestyle but dont single them out and make them pay more taxes, or fines or any other thing. That will only force the weakest ones to change. It will embolden the others and cause them to re-embrace their own version of their world.

  13. #28
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    I am 6'2" and about 350 lbs. I'm not proud of that, but it's the truth. Other than a few aches and pains, I was remarkably healthy until February of this year when I began to drink and pee excessively. These are cardinal signs of diabetes. So off I go to see the doctor...

    I get diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, obesity. Add in drugs for tennis elbow and a stomach ailment that cropped up about the same time, and I go from being healthy to consuming a mini pharmacy every day and night.

    This sucks.

    I have been heavy since I was about 13, when I transformed from a normal sized child to the shape I have today. I have no explanation for this. There were no medical, psychological or other issues. I have tried diets and exercise. They either don't work, or as soon as I come off the diet, I gain it all back eating conservatively. I have lost 90 pounds by starvation (salad for lunch, half a sub for dinner, water and chewing gum) and a half hour on the treadmill every day. 75 pounds on NutriSystem. At 220-240 pounds, I looked anorexic. Even today, most people guess my weight low by about 75 pounds. 2 weeks after finishing the regimin, I was up 20 pounds and didn't even sense it. I have bought tons of clothes that do not fit. Try being hungry all the time and having your results fall away so quickly.

    For some reason, my body wants to be the size it is. To be smaller would be a daily struggle for the rest of my life. My wife keeps pushing me to get gastric bypass. I have seen these fail, or go horribly wrong. I hate the idea of surgery, especially since I can do it on my own, even though the backside is complete. Makes me wonder if I would backslide the surgery too.

    I used to worry about my weight. My self esteem was horrible. Now I just don't give a hoot, and I'm much happier. Not as happy as when I was smaller, though. Those few months when I could run a mile, that was nice.
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  14. #29
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    Flavor of the day, and creative statistics ..... in my opinion.

  15. #30
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    First, let me say that I feel that the government has ABSOLUTELY no business controlling people to such an extent.

    Tell the smokers to stop smoking; tell the fatties to quit eating. What’s next? Tell skydivers to quit ‘cause its dangerous? Ban boxing ‘cause the boxers could get hurt?

    Let’s get real folks. Once you start on that slippery slope, its hard to stop the slide.

    Anyone ever see the movie Demolition Man? ‘Nuff said.

    OK. Now that that’s out of the way, here is the way I see the physical condition of way too many Americans.

    We have gotten to where we are because of a lack of self respect and a lack of discipline. Period! We don’t take any pride in our appearance anymore. We dress like slobs and we look like slobs.

    While there are those who suffer from thyroid problems or some other real illness that causes them to either be heavy or to be unable to workout, I believe that the vast majority of people CAN lose weight and CAN get into shape.

    I am no spring chicken. I will be 58 in November. I have been pretty porky most of my adult life.

    But I have said ENOUGH! I have been dieting and working out like a fiend. I have dropped only 36lbs so far but my waistline is down almost 8 inches. I think that is because I am packing on a lot of muscle.

    I still plan on losing another 80lbs and it ain’t easy because I have worshipped at the altar
    of the Big Mac and Papa John’s Pizza for way too long.

    I can’t buy the idea that people don’t have time to workout. I only workout 30 to 45 minutes each evening at home. The trick is that the workout needs to be a full out I-am-ready-to-puke-at-the-end type of workout.

    Although I have a lot of equipment, a good workout can be had in 30 minutes with no equipment at all. It just takes determination.

    I have found some like minded people who meet regularly in our “combatives group”. We work footwork, stick, knife, empty hands drills, take downs and grappling. Some members of the group are in incredible shape. Others are like me – trying to get there.

    The bottom line is that each of us needs to decide what level of fitness we are satisfied with. If a big burger is more important to you than feeling and looking good, then have at it.

    If, however, you decide to reinvent yourself into a much leaner version of yourself, you just need to make the commitment.

    After all, look at what TN_Mike did. He dropped a ton of weight and got into real good shape.

    Like the commercials say, “Just Do it”.
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