Dog(s) as part of your Home Defense

This is a discussion on Dog(s) as part of your Home Defense within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by BaserRonin that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard all day, and I am on a DOD contract right now. Ok, ...

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Thread: Dog(s) as part of your Home Defense

  1. #61
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaserRonin View Post
    that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard all day, and I am on a DOD contract right now.
    Ok, I don't care what we're talking about, that's just funny right there!

    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    +1
    I had Australian Shep that would only eat from me. Saved his life when other dogs at the barn got poisoned. Go Bunny!
    Thanks, but I didn't train her myself. I was 19 at the time and just starting to learn. Her LEO K9 trainer guy worked with her. And me. And then with both of us. This is a trait you will see in almost all upper-level PPDs as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by BaserRonin View Post
    How does one go about properly training a PPD dog? The thought never crossed my mind before now, but is an interesting idea.
    The first thing you have to do is make sure the dog has the proper disposition for it, not all dogs do. My mastiff mix is excellent in certain aspects of protection, but she's all posture. She doesn't have it in her do do the bitework. And my Dane doesn't have it in him to do any protection work. In fact, if you try to make a Dane a PPD, you will most likely ruin the dog because the traits that made them great castle protectors and boar hunters have all but been bred out. Likewise, MOST American line GSDs don't have the steady nerves to do PP work, and thus usually the working dogs are imported.

    After you evaluate the dog and determine that it is suitable to start PP work, well that I can say I don't have much of an idea on that personally, as I handle therapy dogs and mostly train in basic obedience and problem behaviors. In fact, I usually try and use the dog's drives to work with me in stopping many of the behaviors that you would want for a working dog. But I have been seeking out mentors this year in PP and SAR to see if that's an area I'm comfortable starting.

    Quote Originally Posted by BaserRonin View Post
    How does one go about training out aggressive behavior?
    There's no catch all, different dogs have different reasons behind their behavior, and there are so many different methods to "reach" them, there are too many variables. If you have someone qualified who can observe her in her behavior, they may be better able to come up with a reason behind it, and then offer different methods to help extinguish the undesirable behavior. It sounds like it could very well be a fear thing, from what you describe, so the most important thing in your training is to work at HER pace, and make sure she constantly feels secure throughout the training, and that you always end on a high note. If you use methods that found her fear when trying to stop (yelling at her loudly when she's barking/growling) then it just aggravates the situation.

    Again, that's IF this is a fear situation. There are probably some great trainers near you though, or you're always welcome to email/PM me.
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  3. #62
    Member Array trob09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    The first thing you have to do is make sure the dog has the proper disposition for it, not all dogs do.
    Absolutely! Even a strong working-line pedigree is no guarantee.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    My mastiff mix is excellent in certain aspects of protection, but she's all posture. She doesn't have it in her do do the bitework.
    Maybe. I say maybe because if you don't know how to bring out the protection drive and nurture it you can shut it down before it starts or is fully developed. While the obedience portion of working dog training is fairly consistent with other training methods, developing the protection side can be quite different. You may want to have someone accustomed to that kind of training evaluate your mastiff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    And my Dane doesn't have it in him to do any protection work. In fact, if you try to make a Dane a PPD, you will most likely ruin the dog because the traits that made them great castle protectors and boar hunters have all but been bred out. Likewise, MOST American line GSDs don't have the steady nerves to do PP work, and thus usually the working dogs are imported.
    Generally speaking this is true, the American "show lines" are poor performers in the working dog world. There are a growing number of American breeders focusing on working line GSD's but most of them started with imported stock. My long-coat GSD is imported from Czech lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    After you evaluate the dog and determine that it is suitable to start PP work, well that I can say I don't have much of an idea on that personally, as I handle therapy dogs and mostly train in basic obedience and problem behaviors. In fact, I usually try and use the dog's drives to work with me in stopping many of the behaviors that you would want for a working dog. But I have been seeking out mentors this year in PP and SAR to see if that's an area I'm comfortable starting.
    As I say, find someone who does know. you can do a lot of damage or potentially create a dangerous dog if you don't know how to build the right kind of protection drive and confidence.
    Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitude - Frederick Douglass

  4. #63
    Member Array BaserRonin's Avatar
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    Interesting stuff, thanks guys.

  5. #64
    Senior Member Array Barbary's Avatar
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    Bunny, quick question. I like the GSD and the Bull mastiff breeds. Trying to find a larger dog(guard purposes) that will get a long with my Boston terrier and children. Your thoughts would be welcome.

  6. #65
    Member Array muddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNUT View Post
    Sorry Muddy,
    You might know how to train a duck dog but there's a difference between that and knowing how dogs think, The comments in your post make that clear.
    I can vouch that I've been advised by Bunny on ways to treat my dogs aggression issues and that they have in fact worked. He'll still eat someone at the house or in the truck but now I can take him places and he behaves himself. He'll even be nice with people and kids at the park, he used to dislike children. Previously ,I would have to leave him at home when I'd take my other dogs out, no reason for it, no abuse or anything, he was just that way. I also had a rescue Boxer that was the biggest boxer I've ever seen, humongous. He was so gentle that he'd play with the little kids next door, he'd crawl on his belly over to them to be petted, he wasn't taught that, it was his idea. Lots of dogs aren't in rescue because they were abused or problem dogs. Like your post said, too many people get a dog and don't realize just what it takes to maintain them.
    Don't try giving a treat to a dog that wants to bite you, he'll take your hand and leave the treat. A dog that is wound up could not care less about food. I've tried to condition my dog just that way. Not once has he ever been even remotely interested in the treat. When he sees people or situations that set him off he isn't going to all of a sudden stop for a snack. It aint happening.
    I grew up with two attack trained Dobermans in the house, they made great pets and would absolutely protect the house and everything in it. Can't tell you how many other times I've had to get people from outside because the dog/ dogs would have them cornered. They should have paid attention to the Beware of Dogs signs.....anyway, a dog can protect and be a great pet You are very wrong about that.
    I don't understand. You have a dog with aggression issues, sounds like it just likes to eat people. You are trying to take care of these issues? But then you say you conditioned the dog not to take food? So did you turn this dog mean or are we talking about different dogs. You don't hold onto the treat dang you throw it to the mutt. Lunch meat works well steak is better.

    I read the posts that say I don't know what I am talking about and its so wrong but then the poster goes on some tangent about there dog and never posts anything to back it up.

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Muddy you are so off base i don't know where to start but here goes.

    You sarcasm, are you trying to flame or is it pure arrogance?

    Second, Bunny seems to be quite knowledgeable from reading many of her posts about dogs. I don't know what qualifies you to degrade her opinions about a topic in which she IS clearly knowledgeable but it could be done in a civil manner if you are compelled to do so.

    I would also like to know where you get your info about rescue dogs not being good to bring around children. I am talking about reputable info not from some obscure internet site....
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  8. #67
    Member Array MrsFosforos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbary View Post
    Bunny, quick question. I like the GSD and the Bull mastiff breeds. Trying to find a larger dog(guard purposes) that will get a long with my Boston terrier and children. Your thoughts would be welcome.
    HEY!! if you haven't found it already check out the best BT discussion board on the web: woofboard.com!

    We have a GSD/Rott mix and 3 BTs. These two are inseperable:
    Lexi is the big dawg - the security guard; Rosco Bob is the little one - he's the security alarm.


    This is Lily Bear - she rules the roost around here. She does what she wants, when she wants; she hears what she wants, when she wants. She's bascially a diva - pia.


    This is Sisu - he's a rescue. He's got the best personality and went through Canine Good Citizen training!


    Rosco Bob was also a rescue, we got him at 6 months old. He had been neglected and had little interaction with people until we adopted him. He was one of the most socially inept dogs I'd met. He was ok with the other animals, but he was afraid to trust people. It took some time and we also saw a behavioral trainer to help. He had been kept in a kennel for the first 6 months of his life without any interaction except being fed.

    The trainer helped US more than anything - she taught us what we needed to know to treat him like a dog (instead of an abused dog)! It helped him understand his place in our 'pack' - and he came out of his shell. Now he's a loveable little wiggle butt (his tail rotates like a helicopter roter all the time).

    Rescuing does not mean you're automatically inheriting someone else's problems. We're transporters for a couple of rescue groups around here. A LOT of dogs in foster care are NOT neglected and are perfectly healthy (often pure bred)... we are seeing a terrible increase in owner surrender because of this economy.

    We have rescued on both ends of the spectrum - from kill shelters where "what you see is what you get" (Rosco Bob) and the top of the line pet orphange where we adopted Sisu. Both had been fully vetted, tested for heartworms, started on preventative, all shots were up to date, nuetered & microchipped.

    Reputable rescue groups will make the best match for the dog and the family who is adopting. There is usually an application & interview process and home visits to make sure the fit is right for everyone involved. On the other hand, rescuing from a city pound is more luck of the draw -- but you can STILL FIND GREAT DOGS THERE TOO!

    SUPPORT RESCUE If YOU CAN!!

  9. #68
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trob09 View Post
    Maybe. I say maybe because if you don't know how to bring out the protection drive and nurture it you can shut it down before it starts or is fully developed. While the obedience portion of working dog training is fairly consistent with other training methods, developing the protection side can be quite different. You may want to have someone accustomed to that kind of training evaluate your mastiff.
    We did. Like I said, I'm not qualified for PP training. My area is more gentle stuff. Therapy working dogs and working with newly adoptive families, helping overcome any present issues, if any. The trainer we hired back after we got Blue and brought her back to health was a PPD trainer. He tested her and put her through her paces. It was clear that while she enjoyed SOME of the work, she was too handler-dependent (at a loss when she had to think for herself) and had weak nerves. Oh well. She makes an excellent vaccuum cleaner and foot warmer. Also, if gravity should ever suddenly reverse itself, the couch will NOT go through the ceiling. She has really immersed herself in the whole couch-weight job.

    Quote Originally Posted by trob09 View Post
    Generally speaking this is true, the American "show lines" are poor performers in the working dog world. There are a growing number of American breeders focusing on working line GSD's but most of them started with imported stock. My long-coat GSD is imported from Czech lines.

    As I say, find someone who does know. you can do a lot of damage or potentially create a dangerous dog if you don't know how to build the right kind of protection drive and confidence.
    Agreed. Ugh, don't get me started on what they've done to the poor American lines now. It's infuriating!

    I tell anyone looking for something larger than an ankle-nipper: Having a large breed dog, especially one that could be considered "dangerous" by some of the ignorami out there, is an extra responsibility. It's like owning a loaded gun. In the wrong hands, not properly handled, there's a huge potential for injury or possibly even death. Make sure the dog is well-trained and always under your control. And obey the leash laws!
    Don't frisk me, I am the weapon.


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  10. #69
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbary View Post
    Bunny, quick question. I like the GSD and the Bull mastiff breeds. Trying to find a larger dog(guard purposes) that will get a long with my Boston terrier and children. Your thoughts would be welcome.
    Barbary: It depends on the dog, really. Some are fantastic with all sizes, even cats and small animals like bunnies. Some just will never be. If you like the GSD and the BM, you have two options as I see it: 1) find a rescue, make sure the one you want to adopt has been tested and is good with smaller dogs and whatever sexes your dogs are. (Some are sex-aggressive.) Any rescue worth their salt will make sure that you meet with the dog at least once or twice, and they ought to be able to have the dog brought with them when they do your home visit. They can show you how to properly introduce your pups to the potential new baby. If not, I wrote some literature and protocols for rescue that I can email to you if you want.
    2) find a good breeder (you can email me on that too. There's a big difference between a backyard breeder and a reputable one you can trust) who knows their dogs, or may even have pups on the ground or older ones available for sale/adoption. They can tell you which ones have been raised around smaller dogs and should be able to get along fine.

    My Dane loves small dogs, but he's terrified of them. We had a chihuahua growl at him once and he yelped and fled behind my skirt! The big dogs don't always know what to make of him, but they accept him, even if slowly at first. The little ones seem to get their "Napoleon Complex" up with him, and he's such a wuss, poor baby!
    Don't frisk me, I am the weapon.


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  11. #70
    Member Array MrsFosforos's Avatar
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    Back to the TOPIC!!

    Back to the orignal questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Brady View Post
    Several part question(s) here;
    What kind of dog(s) and children combination do you have/recommend and why.
    I was a single mom for a long time and I could never have imagined NOT having dogs with me all the time.

    My daughter grew up with Boston Terriers and we always have had least one big dog that lived with us - first a German Shepard named Shea, then a Rottwieler named Gretchen and the last 2 were litter mates (1/2 rott 1/2 GSD) Lexi & Dakota.

    Lexi is our current big dog. Her litter mate, Dakota passed away from chronic problems with arthritis a couple of years ago.

    The time will come when we will have to consider another big dog - Lexi is coming up on 11 years old. I'm leaning toward considering another Rott.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brady View Post
    I am afraid that the new dog will smell where the other used to hit my cabinets and do the same. Any suggestions as to what to do about that? Replacing the cabinets is not an option (economics).
    I tend to like females -- not as likely to have marking issues!! You can also try cleaning the cabinets with vinegar. I also like to use simple green solutions to remove pet smells.

    Good luck with finding the right match for your family!!

  12. #71
    Distinguished Member Array CT-Mike's Avatar
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    Barbary,

    I have to agree with what Bunny said. My female GSD will be sleeping on the floor, and the cat will run up and dive under and bite her on the neck. Sadies will wake up and the cat bails. A few minutes later and it happens again. Finally when Sadies has had enough, she will just put her paw on the cat and hold him down for a little while, and that usually ends things.

    Our male on the other hand chases the cat through the house like there is no tomorrow.
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  13. #72
    Member Array trob09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    We did. Like I said, I'm not qualified for PP training. My area is more gentle stuff. Therapy working dogs and working with newly adoptive families, helping overcome any present issues, if any. The trainer we hired back after we got Blue and brought her back to health was a PPD trainer. He tested her and put her through her paces. It was clear that while she enjoyed SOME of the work, she was too handler-dependent (at a loss when she had to think for herself) and had weak nerves. Oh well. She makes an excellent vaccuum cleaner and foot warmer. Also, if gravity should ever suddenly reverse itself, the couch will NOT go through the ceiling. She has really immersed herself in the whole couch-weight job.
    Cool - I didn't mean to over step any bounds. I've seen people with what they claim are "low key dogs" get built up pretty quickly with a knowledgeable trainer. It sounds like you've taken the right steps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    Agreed. Ugh, don't get me started on what they've done to the poor American lines now. It's infuriating!

    I tell anyone looking for something larger than an ankle-nipper: Having a large breed dog, especially one that could be considered "dangerous" by some of the ignorami out there, is an extra responsibility. It's like owning a loaded gun. In the wrong hands, not properly handled, there's a huge potential for injury or possibly even death. Make sure the dog is well-trained and always under your control. And obey the leash laws!
    I'm in total agreement!
    Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitude - Frederick Douglass

  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by CT-Mike View Post
    Barbary,

    I have to agree with what Bunny said. My female GSD will be sleeping on the floor, and the cat will run up and dive under and bite her on the neck. Sadies will wake up and the cat bails. A few minutes later and it happens again. Finally when Sadies has had enough, she will just put her paw on the cat and hold him down for a little while, and that usually ends things.

    Our male on the other hand chases the cat through the house like there is no tomorrow.
    Gretchen the rottwieler bonded with a little orange cat, Oliver. She would let him walk all over her, knead her head with his paws - anything he wanted! Gretchen only lived to be about 8 years old. Oliver lasted for 17!

    Later on, with Lexi & Dakota: we took in a feral - she was full grown but only weighed about 3 lbs, she was losing hair and losing teeth because she was so malnourished. But she was a hellcat!!

    We called her Gracie, becuse she was the exact opposite of being "full of grace". She hissed and spit and had the dogs cowed down like she was a tiger instead of a 3 or 4 lb cat!

    It was the funniest thing to see the 2 big dogs (one weighed 120lbs and the other was about 140lbs) and they wouldn't come down the hallway if that little bitty cat was anywhere around!

  15. #74
    Ex Member Array PNUT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddy View Post
    I don't understand. You have a dog with aggression issues, sounds like it just likes to eat people. You are trying to take care of these issues? But then you say you conditioned the dog not to take food? So did you turn this dog mean or are we talking about different dogs. You don't hold onto the treat dang you throw it to the mutt. Lunch meat works well steak is better.

    I read the posts that say I don't know what I am talking about and its so wrong but then the poster goes on some tangent about there dog and never posts anything to back it up.

    I think you misunderstood.I'm talking about one dog,and trying to get him to equate seeing a stranger with getting a treat so as to stop his aggression. Say he's barking at the mailman, I bring him a piece of meat, he pays the meat no mind until the mailman is long gone, not something that I conditioned him to do, quite the opposite. Take the dog that is mean, while he is in that aggressive posture ,he will not eat. Throw it a treat all day long, he won't go get it, not while the threat is there. They aren't going to stop protecting to grab a snack.
    No ,I didn't turn him mean. I'd rather have a nice, easy dog. He's getting there.

  16. #75
    Senior Member Array highoctane's Avatar
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    I have a rottie and a pit that certainly look the part. Playing it it is a different story. LOL My dad was coming to visit and had never met my dog before. (the rottie) I was a little worried about him just walking in the house. I had told him to open the door slowly and ease in. If she started raising heck just wait outside untill i got home. A few hours passed and i hadnt heard from him so i decided to call.

    Me: Hey. What are you doing?
    Dad: Making coffee.
    Me: I guess you got in then.
    Dad: yep.
    Me: What did she do? Did she raise heck?
    Dad: Hell, she didnt even roll over.
    Me: So much for a guard dog. lol

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