Another Gun toting Liberal

This is a discussion on Another Gun toting Liberal within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by yoshi This isn't at all a me vs. you. I consider myself one of "you" as far as guns go (and probably ...

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Thread: Another Gun toting Liberal

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoshi
    This isn't at all a me vs. you. I consider myself one of "you" as far as guns go (and probably on much more than we all realize).
    And that's reason enough for all of us to participate together on CombatCarry!
    "I surrounded 'em"- Alvin York

    "They're ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six"- Jeff Cooper

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    Not a "revolutionary ", an oddity.

    Quote Originally Posted by yoshi
    Preface: I post this with a bit of trepidation, I am not trying to inflame political rhetoric or a flame war.
    I would like some serious thoughts on the subject of why more liberals do not feel comfortable around pro-gun people.

    Here is my pet-peeve - not about this forum specifically but about "Gun people" in general:
    Now I own guns, I love guns, I have CCW, I believe in the 2nd Amendment - I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN. It seems everywhere I go that is "gun-friendly" it is assumed that people are republican or right-wing libertarian.
    I consider myself a LIBERAL - I believe that it is essential to extend the utmost of civil and human rights to each individual even if it means living in a little more danger - because by doing so I guarantee the rights of everybody else. I belong to the NRA and the ACLU (although the ACLU is lapsed at the moment). I believe it is a vocal minority of the LEFT that is Anti-gun (ala Brady center, AWB, media). I don't understand why the NRA focuses most of its effort on getting Republicans elected - why don't they try to find pro-gun Democrats? I don't understand why so many politicians are so keen to protect hunting and sporting, but not the principles enshrined in our own declaration of independence ("When in the course of human events...").

    I have struggled for years to flesh out my own thoughts on this and I could write a book, but not here. Also I am afraid people see a gun-toting liberal as a revolutionary - which I am not. But it is precisely the fact that we could overthrow the government that gives the government and our system of democracy its credibility.

    I believe some of you may have thought about this before, and look forward to your insight.

    That said, I am now probably on some NSA watch list.
    Sorry Yoshi but a gun toting liberal is an oddity if you ask me. For example, most liberals are anti-death penalty. To carry a gun for self protection seems to fly in the face of this belief as shooting an attacker immediately resolves the conflict with death. How can you be for one, and against the other? Pro gun people are typically not as touchy, feely as liberals. Therefore liberals are not comfortable around them. I am not as interested in someone being "comfortable" as I am in my rights being preserved. If a person is uncomfortable because I exercise my rights by carrying a gun, I don't care, but most liberals do.

    As for the ACLU, what can I say? I have yet to hear of them trying to protect the civil liberties of permit holders. They seem to be on their own crusade but nobody knows what that is. Why aren't they working with the NRA to sue NJ for arresting that fellow from Utah? Seems to me his civil liberties were violated. I dont' see how you can support gun rights and the ACLU at the same time. They contradict one another at least with this issue.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  4. #18
    Member Array roadrash's Avatar
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    I do not think its possible to be both liberal,and pro gun.I think you are just to young to realize you are a conservative!
    If you are young and not a liberal you have no heart,If you are old and not a conservative you have no brains!
    Winston Churchill

  5. #19
    Member Array yoshi's Avatar
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    According to this months America's 1st Freedom (itself quoting the Editor & Publisher)
    "the average american owns 1.7 guns, with the average gun owner possessing 4.4 of them...[O]ne out of every three American women say they own a gun". Statistically there have to be many "liberal" gun owners.
    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe
    To carry a gun for self protection seems to fly in the face of this belief as shooting an attacker immediately resolves the conflict with death. How can you be for one, and against the other?
    The belief in the right to defense is fundamentally different from the right to exact punative justice through capital punishment. If the situation is kill or be killed, you have that right (and you should be able to stand your ground). You do not have the right to hunt down an offender yourself (or shoot at someone fleeing etc...). That said I do believe in Capital punishment in certain circumstances.

    On the issue of comfort, take this example: I have some friends (married) who are crunchy granola's. They have always been extreme pacifists. That is until they got pregnant and had a baby. Now they are asking me about self defense. These people most definately would not feel comfortable if someone made a disparaging remark about liberals - since they see themselves as liberals - but they are warm to the idea of firearms and self defense and not offended that I (now) carry.
    Live Free or Die

  6. #20
    Member Array roadrash's Avatar
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    Yoshi,the longer your friends are parents, the more they will probably lean to the right!

  7. #21
    Ex Member Array Phil Elmore's Avatar
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    It is not philosophically possible -- not consistently philosophically possible, anyway -- to support the right to self-defense while supporting political parties and organizations that actively work against that right. (The ACLU, for example, buys into the "collective right" misinterpretation of the Second Amendment and certainly does not support the rights of Christians to freely practice their religion as the majority in society.) Liberal politics also includes hostility to your right to keep what you earn, your right to private property, and your right to do with your private property as you see fit.

    A gun-owning "liberal" has, I am afraid, some serious soul-searching to do in reconciling these conflicting philosophies.

  8. #22
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    Yoshi, your original post asked why the NRA doesn't find more pro-gun Democrats to support. Well, you're one...why don't you consider running for office? I'm a "yellow-dog" Republican, but I firmly believe that our system functions best when there are two strong parties who are forced to work together. Personally, I'll take all of the pro-gun Democrats (and Republicans, and Libertarians, and etc.) that I can get!

  9. #23
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    Gandhi did not belive in "doing nothing".

    Quote Originally Posted by glock21guy
    I work with a guy that is of the mind set you do nothing, and all will be good in the world, like Mahatma Gandhi. I think this is a noble belief, and in his time it worked. But I am not will to put my life on the line to test it out. The world has change changed greatly since Gandhi was around.
    Gandhi was a man of non-violence resistance and with that his movement was responsible for Inda's independence from British rule. He did not just sit around and doing nothing.

    Some good quotes from Gandhi;

    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."

    "Be the change you want to see in the world."

    I think we can agree with those!

    As to the subject of this thread, while one can argue that % wise Democrats are less "pro gun" and Republicans and Libertarians are more "pro gun". However, there are "pro gun" Democrats just like there are "anti gun" Republicans and Libertarians.

    The 2A should transend political parties and those of use who understand the true meaning the 2A should educate more sheeple that the 2A is not for state militias, nor was it put into the constitution for "hunting".

    The mindset out there is the government should take care of all your needs and entitlements. Government is good, otherwise there is anarchy. However, the people must always have ultimate power and that includes being able to overthrow an opressive and corrupt government as a last resort should the democratic political system fail.

  10. #24
    Ex Member Array Phil Elmore's Avatar
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    All amendments to the Constitution should transcend political party -- because they are supposed to be the law of the land. The Democrats consistently trample the Second Amendment. The Republicans do so as well -- they simply do it less often. The difference in frequency is still great enough that no gun owner should be able to vote Democrat in good conscience. Many gun owners can barely vote Republican in good conscience, for that matter.

    As for pacifism, it is a self-destructive and unworkable philosophy.

  11. #25
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    the comment about finding Pro_Gun democrats is very correct.
    They are out there.

    AFS
    Gun control is hitting what you aim at

  12. #26
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    I'm just frustrated the way both parties are intentionally polarizing some of the really important issues in this country as a strategic political matter. Unfortunately, gun controls are one of those issues, and we're trapped in the middle.

    Both parties are guilty of the act, and both, currently, have earned my disdain. You pick the people to vote for based on what they'll do for YOU, not based on their stand on something that does not matter to you. <Richard, Go Home...>

    Rant over.....

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    liberal, what does it mean, anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe
    Sorry Yoshi but a gun toting liberal is an oddity if you ask me. For example, most liberals are anti-death penalty. Pro gun people are typically not as touchy, feely as liberals. Therefore liberals are not comfortable around them. As for the ACLU, what can I say? I have yet to hear of them trying to protect the civil liberties of permit holders.
    I don't think that a gun-toting liberal is an oddity. It is testament that the American people are more complex and sophisticated than a two-state, red-or-blue color categorization can capture.

    For instance, as is Yoshi, judging by the replies to this thread I too am a "liberal" firearm owner (whatever that means). I have lived in metropolitan NE cities all my life (read: surrounded by fierce antis) but see the simple, timeless wisdom in taking the protection of my family's well being as well as my own upon myself (hopefully the State Firearms Bureau will soon agree with me). I believe in RKBA but I also believe strongly in the protection of individual privacy that seems to be dying the death of a thousand cuts these days in America. I believe in the death penalty but I also believe that Gitmo is wrong on many, many levels, despite the reasons that our leaders have advanced.

    The bottom line is that the right to privacy and the right to keep and bear arms are but two of MANY passions that I have. And so it stands, I am a NRA member and an ACLU member as well. Neither the NRA nor the ACLU fights *ALL* the fights that I think should be fought. I could fault each one for egregiously keeping the sidelines on certain issues that I find personally relevant. But, at least each one, even if only in part, stands for that which I believe in and that's about as good as it gets in an imperfect world. Lastly, since my identity is not solely informed on the basis of any single conviction, whether it be religious, political, or social, belonging to the ACLU doesn't exclude me from belonging to the NRA, and vice-versa.

    Honestly, I find all the right- and left-talk to be foolishness. If there are two sides to an issue, the vollying of wholesale generalizations, such as those that I've unfortunately found herein, do nothing to add to meaningful discourse, and creates an atmosphere of shouting where no one is really listening. Personally, I won't allow myself to be drawn into the liberal/conservative conundrum. Each label (conservative/liberal, right/left, etc.) is relative to the other, anyway. As someone else deftly put it, I keep my political philosophies to myself and my family, and don't allow them to become an obstacle in interpersonal affairs in any but the most extreme cases.

    Glad to be here at CCC though. There seems to be many patient, moderate, knowledgeable voices here that contribute regularly. Keep up the good work. I certainly can't say the same for some of the other pro 2A sites that I frequent.

  14. #28
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    Each label (conservative/liberal, right/left, etc.) is relative to the other, anyway. As someone else deftly put it, I keep my political philosophies to myself and my family, and don't allow them to become an obstacle in interpersonal affairs in any but the most extreme cases.
    Moga - welcome That thinking suits me fine - I prefer to be in some ways ''labelless''
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  15. #29
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    Talking Welcome Moga

    Quote Originally Posted by Moga
    I don't think that a gun-toting liberal is an oddity. It is testament that the American people are more complex and sophisticated than a two-state, red-or-blue color categorization can capture.

    For instance, as is Yoshi, judging by the replies to this thread I too am a "liberal" firearm owner (whatever that means). I have lived in metropolitan NE cities all my life (read: surrounded by fierce antis)
    Welcome Moga!

    My sister lives in Boston, down close to Logan which I think is also near an aquarium, right?

    She used to be a FIERCE anti but now only demonizes handguns and assault rifles, LOL.

    Her son, my nephew I taught to handle a handgun on the few occasions that I was able to get them to visit down south. I told the kid I'd give him my Browning Hi-Power 9mm when he turned 21 AND moved to a free state.

    Judging from his ambitions, that's not going to be anytime soon, he's set to graduate from Georgetown in DC and he's got a handle on a job with the Democratic party.

    He was one of the few PAID staffers in Florida during the Kerry campaign and they not only paid him salary but per diem too.

    Anyway I'm rambling again.....WELCOME!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  16. #30
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    Thumbs up Welcome aboard, Moga!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moga
    I don't think that a gun-toting liberal is an oddity.
    <snip>
    ...I have lived in metropolitan NE cities all my life (read: surrounded by fierce antis) but see the simple, timeless wisdom in taking the protection of my family's well being as well as my own upon myself (hopefully the State Firearms Bureau will soon agree with me).
    I've never been east of the Mississippi River myself, so let me ask this question: who do all of these "fierce anti's" count on for the protection of their families well-being? You've obviously seen the wisdom of counting on yourself, but who are they depending on to keep them safe?

    Have you applied for a CCW permit from the State Firearms Bureau? How hard is it to get a CCW in Massachusetts?

    Again, welcome to CombatCarry! We all may not have voted for the same person, but everyone at this site has the same goals as far as gun ownership (I think )

    And, as far as mixing politics and guns (or religion) goes:

    "I surrounded 'em"- Alvin York

    "They're ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six"- Jeff Cooper

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