Walter Cronkite , War on Drugs

This is a discussion on Walter Cronkite , War on Drugs within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by paul34 However, it is correct that Cronkite really lost a lot of his honor later in his career, probably around the era ...

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Thread: Walter Cronkite , War on Drugs

  1. #16
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    Not correct about Cronkite

    Quote Originally Posted by paul34 View Post
    However, it is correct that Cronkite really lost a lot of his honor later in his career, probably around the era of Vietnam. But I wasn't alive then so I can't fully comment on it. But at any rate, I will credit someone if it is appropriate to do so, and in this, he is correct.
    Well you weren't alive, but I was and I was in my early 30s when the dang thing finally ended. Cronkite lost no honor whatsoever through his Vietnam era reporting. He appropriately gained stature for correctly calling that mess what it was.

    We had a Secry of Defense, the newly late Robert McNamara, who later on in his life publicly admitted that it was all a horrific mistake and that he was aware of that fact at the time.

    Sorry this is off topic, but since you weren't alive to be an active witness to the events I prefer my own eye-witness account, thank you.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array SilenceDoGood's Avatar
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    SelfDefense,

    Can you provide any evidence that the war on drugs is improving society?
    "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array SilenceDoGood's Avatar
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    Self Defense,

    If weed is illegal then alcohol should be as well. I've never met a person who has recently smoked pot and wanted to fight me, but I've met plenty of people who were belligerently drunk and wanted to fight for no reason.

    Ask any police officer on this forum the last time they dealt with a violent stoner. Then ask them the last time they dealt with a violent drunk.
    "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceDoGood View Post
    Can you provide any evidence that the war on drugs is improving society?
    You don't think enforcing the law improves society?

    Do you suggest we have no laws? Would that improve society?

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    You don't think enforcing the law improves society?

    Do you suggest we have no laws? Would that improve society?
    That's not what I said at all. I said provide evidence that the war on drugs is working...

    Do you think slave enforcement laws made society better?

    It's about which laws mesh with society and which ones don't. Of course there needs to be laws, but they need to improve society. I've never run across any data, or anyone that could provide data, that the laws used to enforce the war on drugs improve society.

    Come on now...
    "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceDoGood View Post
    If weed is illegal then alcohol should be as well.
    Why? Should we also have heroin on the grocery store shelf right next to the hypodermic needles and the children's candy? Why not?

    I've never met a person who has recently smoked pot and wanted to fight me, but I've met plenty of people who were belligerently drunk and wanted to fight for no reason.
    Exactly what does fighting you have to do with the problems directly associated with illegal drug use?

    Ask any police officer on this forum the last time they dealt with a violent stoner. Then ask them the last time they dealt with a violent drunk.
    Do you think our law enforcement officers should pick and choose the laws they enforce?

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array SilenceDoGood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Why? Should we also have heroin on the grocery store shelf right next to the hypodermic needles and the children's candy? Why not?
    I wish nobody would chose to use heroine, but they do. And it being illegal doesn't stop them from getting it, so why waste your tax dollars making it illeagl? When you could just regulate it instead? What seems safer to you, regulated drug purchases or black market drug purchases? Either way, heroin is bought and sold everyday, not even you can deny that. So why not pick the lesser of two evils?

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Exactly what does fighting you have to do with the problems directly associated with illegal drug use?
    The problem here is the government wants to spend our tax money on sending people to jail for using a "drug" (if one could call a plant that) that causes significantly less damage to our society than one they allow... alcohol. Are logical laws too much to ask for?

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Do you think our law enforcement officers should pick and choose the laws they enforce?
    Heck no, I'm saying their shouldn't be laws that affect what people want to put in their body.
    "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceDoGood View Post
    That's not what I said at all. I said provide evidence that the war on drugs is working...
    Law enforcement is working because we arrest offenders, arrest pushers, and arrest the suppliers. We also interdict millions of pounds of drugs every year. Denying the success is similar to those who deny our success in Iraq.

    Do you think slave enforcement laws made society better?
    We are a government of laws. I support ALL law enforcement. Do you pick and choose the laws you obey?

    It's about which laws mesh with society and which ones don't.
    And in our society we have deemed illegal drug use harmful and provide penalties for offenders. The vast majority of people want to keep illegal drugs illegal.

    Of course there needs to be laws, but they need to improve society. I've never run across any data, or anyone that could provide data, that the laws used to enforce the war on drugs improve society.
    I take it you support the street corner pusher, selling your teenager meth and heroin. Because that is EXACTLY what would appen of there was no law against it.

    Do you want your kid to be a drug addict? Why not?

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array SilenceDoGood's Avatar
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    SelfDefense, after reading and rereading your posts, it has become obvious that you are emotionally connected with this issue, which is affecting your ability to use logic. That or logic is beyond you all together.

    I didn't say provide evidence law enforcement is working... I said provide evidence the war on drugs is working.

    You're no different than the antigun liberal who spews illogical information.

    Good day.
    "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

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  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceDoGood View Post
    I wish nobody would chose to use heroine, but they do. And it being illegal doesn't stop them from getting it, so why waste your tax dollars making it illeagl?
    People rob banks. Why waste tax dollars making it illegal? Why make anything illegal?

    When you could just regulate it instead?
    It is regulated. Severely regulated.

    What seems safer to you, regulated drug purchases or black market drug purchases?
    Irrelevant. Drug use harms society. Other crimes also harm society. Because one leads to another does not mean we should condone the 'lesser' crime. Just the opposite, we shoud strive for harsher penalities and more enforcement.

    Either way, heroin is bought and sold everyday, not even you can deny that. So why not pick the lesser of two evils?
    And banks are robbed every day. Crimes of all sorts are committed. Should we allow bank robberies cause it lesser than murder?

    The problem here is the government wants to spend our tax money on sending people to jail for using a "drug" (if one could call a plant that) that causes significantly less damage to our society than one they allow... alcohol.
    Poor argument. Justifying bad behavior be pointing to other bad behavior is a poor aregument. Yes, one can call a dangerous plant that can be synthesized into a narcotic a 'drug.' Or are you simply trying to maintain that marijuana should be legal but meth shoud be illegal? I see no difference whatsoever. Do you?

    Are logical laws too much to ask for?
    You can ask for anything you want. In my opinion, dangerous drugs like heroin, cocaine, meth, LSD, marijuana, PHP and the like are far, far more dangerous than alcohol. Society agrees with that assessment.

    Heck no, I'm saying their shouldn't be laws that affect what people want to put in their body.
    Unfortunately, the damage of drugs is more widespread than simply an individual ruining his life.

  13. #27
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceDoGood View Post
    SelfDefense, after reading and rereading your posts, it has become obvious that you are emotionally connected with this issue, which is affecting your ability to use logic. That or logic is beyond you all together.
    Have you considered that you haven't provided a logical argument, only an emotional attachment to the use of illegal drugs. I suspected as much when you chose not to answer any of the pointed questions I asked, which show the illogic of your position.

    I didn't say provide evidence law enforcement is working... I said provide evidence the war on drugs is working.
    The evidence is that we are arresting riminals and inderdicting millions of pounds of drugs that would otherwise find their way into our children's lives.

    You're no different than the antigun liberal who spews illogical information.


    Most of the people that want to leaglize meth, cocaine, heroin, marijuana are trying to justify their own behavior. Because NOT A SINGLE PARENT would want their child involved in drugs.

  15. #29
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    No redeeming benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    No, we should ban use of items demonstrably harmful to society with no redeeming benefits.
    1__that approach has never worked; all that happens is crime and opportunity for criminality gets created; think great experiment with prohibition; think of all the anti-prostitution and anti-gambling laws. Why once in awhile we even catch a sheriff or a preacher engaged in these activities. Sometimes they even have a smile on their face as they get led off in cuffs. Looks to me like Nevada does pretty well accommodating some of reality. Maybe CA too.

    2__each substance has to be very carefully considered individually as to whether or not there are redeeming benefits. In almost every instance where there are strict controls the substance being controlled indeed has real medical uses or potential medical uses.

    The argument you provided reminds me of the anti-gun argument. Guns have no legitimate uses in the eyes of many so we shouldn't have ours. Or, maybe one person's legitimate use (self defense) is another person's manslaughter. It is about the same with every single drug of abuse.

    3_ from a pure liberty point of view, what people do to their bodies is no one else's business. Some of these prohibitions are as futile and silly as making suicide illegal.

    4__as generally pro-government as I am, and as generally in favor of regulatory authorities given to government, I think we'd cut our medical care costs in half if we did away with much (not all) of our present prescription system and drug schedule.

    5_futile attempts at drug traffic and use controls have had a very corrosive effect on our society and burdened us as tax payers and relieved us of our civil liberties to be free from searches, free from fear of the plant, and free to carry around as much money as we wish in our back pocket. Just as an example, I recently read of a man being arrested at a TSA checkpoint because a large amount of money was found on him though there is no law prohibiting the transport of large amounts of money. "They" just thought he had to be doing something.

    6__no one in their right mind would ingest some of this street stuff. So, let's treat the folks who do take it as what they are, ill people in need of mental health services and treatment.

    I have attended several meetings of the Drug and Alcohol testing Industry Association. And I have had numerous conversations with toxicologists working for SAMHSA (a Federal Agency, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration), and with MROs (Medical Review Officers involved in regulated drug testing).

    In my opinion there are 3 categories of folks involved in the drug testing world. 1) those who see it as a business and nothing more;
    2) those who see it as a reasonable extension of law enforcement; 3) fanatics, those who have had family tragedies which were drug related and can no longer think straight about the topic.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    1__that approach has never worked; all that happens is crime and opportunity for criminality gets created; think great experiment with prohibition; think of all the anti-prostitution and anti-gambling laws.
    The difference is that the public did not support Prohibition. Virtually no one wants opium dens, heroin sold on street corners (or in grocery stores) or ur children having access to meth, marijuana, LSD, PHP or any other illegal drugs. With allowing Indian casinos, and state lotteries, we have seen a rise in crime and increase in welfare. Prostitution? I assume you want to see hookers of every corner, spreading disease and creating an atmoshere of disgust in our neighborhoods.

    People enact laws to curb harmful behaviors.

    Why once in awhile we even catch a sheriff or a preacher engaged in these activities. Sometimes they even have a smile on their face as they get led off in cuffs.
    They do? I am puzzled that some people would enjoy being arrested.

    2__each substance has to be very carefully considered individually as to whether or not there are redeeming benefits. In almost every instance where there are strict controls the substance being controlled indeed has real medical uses or potential medical uses.
    That is what I originally wrote.

    The argument you provided reminds me of the anti-gun argument. Guns have no legitimate uses in the eyes of many so we shouldn't have ours.[ Or, maybe one person's legitimate use (self defense) is another person's manslaughter. It is about the same with every single drug of abuse.
    You're jokng, right? You think the addict on the building stoop, with a needle stuck in his arm has correctly judged the necessity for using heroin based on his in depth research? How people equate the use of illegal drugs, demonstrably harmful to society, and the legal ownership of firearms is a mystery.

    3_ from a pure liberty point of view, what people do to their bodies is no one else's business. Some of these prohibitions are as futile and silly as making suicide illegal.
    It is other people's business when it affects them and/or society. And illegal drug use harms not only the individual (for which I couldn't care less) but it also destroys families, employers, children, and communities.

    4__as generally pro-government as I am, and as generally in favor of regulatory authorities given to government, I think we'd cut our medical care costs in half if we did away with much (not all) of our present prescription system and drug schedule.
    I think the current prescription drug system works very well. We have the best and safest pharmeceuticals in the world and an effective distribution and monitoring system.

    5_futile attempts at drug traffic and use controls have had a very corrosive effect on our society and burdened us as tax payers and relieved us of our civil liberties to be free from searches, free from fear of the plant, and free to carry around as much money as we wish in our back pocket.
    I keep hearing about these 'futile attempts' when the fact is that we intercept millions of pounds of drugs and arrest and deport the illegals that are caught. Yes, alot still comes through but some people get away with robbing banks. Shall we throw up our hands or should we redouble our efforts to arrest law breakers?

    Just as an example, I recently read of a man being arrested at a TSA checkpoint because a large amount of money was found on him though there is no law prohibiting the transport of large amounts of money. "They" just thought he had to be doing something.
    Arrested? What was the charge? It is suspiciousto transport lage sums of money and it is that vifilance that leads to criminal activities.

    6__no one in their right mind would ingest some of this street stuff. So, let's treat the folks who do take it as what they are, ill people in need of mental health services and treatment.
    Let's cut off the supply abd deter the demand so they do not further burden society. But we are not even talking about just the mentally ill. We are talking about methheads, potheads, cokeheads or whatever harmful drug they choose to ingest which causes economic, physical, and emotional to society as a whole.

    In my opinion there are 3 categories of folks involved in the drug testing world. 1) those who see it as a business and nothing more; 2) those who see it as a reasonable extension of law enforcement; 3) fanatics, those who have had family tragedies which were drug related and can no longer think straight about the topic.
    Drug addicts hurt business as they are more prone to workplace accidents, they are less productive and in mational security issues pose a grave risk to disclosing classified information.

    All parents should drug test their children on a regular basis. Though, it seems many here actually condone illegal drug use. I assume that includes their own children.

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