Walter Cronkite , War on Drugs

This is a discussion on Walter Cronkite , War on Drugs within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; The war on drugs propaganda is really not much different than the scary stuff the anti-gunners throw at us all day long. Thankfully, we are ...

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Thread: Walter Cronkite , War on Drugs

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    The war on drugs propaganda is really not much different than the scary stuff the anti-gunners throw at us all day long.

    Thankfully, we are able to keep the anti-gunners at bay (somewhat). For instance, more states continually sign on to the doctrine of RTC (right to carry). Amazingly, crime does NOT increase with RTC, in fact, it typically decreases (as we all know). I would imagine many rabid anti-gunners are astonished by this fact.

    In my opinion, the same will happen once we change tactics with the ridiculous war on drugs. A simple step like legalizing MJ will immediately put a huge dent in the drug cartel pocketbooks, plus it will allow our law enforcement and judicial system to focus on real crime. Heck, we can even tax and regulate the stuff, and it will then probably be HARDER for our under-age kids to buy it.

    Who cares if our agencies confiscate millions of pounds of illicit drugs; there will only be many millions more pounds to replace those. Our kids can easily buy all the drugs they want RIGHT NOW. The war on drugs is not stopping them from buying drugs, WE - as parents - ARE THE ONLY THING STOPPING THEM.
    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

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  3. #32
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    Wow, parenting 101?

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    All parents should drug test their children on a regular basis. Though, it seems many here actually condone illegal drug use. I assume that includes their own children.
    Wow, parenting 101?

    A wise parent pays attention to their kids, knows where they are, whom they are with, and has no need to drug test the little monster.

    I can't imagine a more corrosive tactic than to lie and tell your kid you trust him, but you want to verify.

    Besides, if you think a parent can't tell whether or not their kid is using from the kid's behavior, why are you insisting the
    dang stuff causes bad behavior?

    That is illogical. A drug either causes a behavior problem that is discernible, in which case the parent knows about it, or it doesn't cause a behavior problem, in which case much of the anti-argument goes out the window.

    Are you telling me you can't tell? If you can't tell, what's the problem.

    Again, this is why I favor impairment testing not drug testing for employers. (And other technical and legal reasons.)

  4. #33
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I can't imagine a more corrosive tactic than to lie and tell your kid you trust him, but you want to verify.
    I think allowing your children to get involved with drugs is far more corrosive. A parent is not a friend to the child he is a parent. Many people confuse the two in an effort to be liked by the child.

    Besides, if you think a parent can't tell whether or not their kid is using from the kid's behavior, why are you insisting the dang stuff causes bad behavior?
    I didn't say it caused bad behavior though in many cases it does, I said it harms society. And if you can tell your child is taking drugs, which is much easier than the little ones think, it is too late!

  5. #34
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    Careful with the logic friend

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    I

    I didn't say it caused bad behavior though in many cases it does, I said it harms society. And if you can tell your child is taking drugs, which is much easier than the little ones think, it is too late!
    Really? If there is no bad behavior, how is society harmed except through its own mislabeling of a drug as harmful and criminal?

    Just to be clear here, I too wouldn't recognize weed if I saw it nor would I know where to find it. I'm the kind of guy who can go to a convention and my associates will be bragging about all the sin that is going on around us and I couldn't find sin if I my life depended on it. It sure never found me, if you get my meaning--can't be more explicit given forum rules.

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array SilenceDoGood's Avatar
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    Selfdefense...

    Laws are meant to be changed because society does (See amendments if this confuses you). I'm happy that in my lifetime, and hopefully yours (I assume you're a crusty old man by the way you hang on to your nostalgic and propagandized drug views ), drugs will be legalized.
    "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

  7. #36
    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    We lost the war on drugs years ago! I say lets tax it to death and set up treatment programs with 15% of the revenue. Put the rest of the money
    towards national health plan .I bet it would pay for it self.I'm not for
    Uncle Sam running any business because he tends to run it over the budget
    and he has no foresight looking ahead for problems when he's spending someone
    elses money !

  8. #37
    Senior Member Array Pure Kustom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceDoGood View Post
    Selfdefense...

    Laws are meant to be changed because society does (See amendments if this confuses you). I'm happy that in my lifetime, and hopefully yours (I assume you're a crusty old man by the way you hang on to your nostalgic and propagandized drug views ), drugs will be legalized.

  9. #38
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceDoGood View Post
    Laws are meant to be changed because society does (See amendments if this confuses you).
    This wrong, also. In our Republican form of government, we have a process to change laws. Laws are not meant to be changed. That idea is ridiculous. Laws are meant to deter and penalize behaviors inconsistent with the ideals of society.

    I'm happy that in my lifetime, and hopefully yours (I assume you're a crusty old man by the way you hang on to your nostalgic and propagandized drug views ), drugs will be legalized.
    This will never happen. Cocaine, meth, marijuana, LSD and the like will never be legalized because the People do not want it. It really is that simple.

    Sure, drug addicts and libertarians will continue to justify their actions but the fact is that it is anti-social behavior that causes harm to society.

    And no, I am not a crusty old man. I am a person who understands the damage drugs do to children and society. It is certainly not the harmless pasttime drug addicts portray.

  10. #39
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    Don't lump agents together-each has own properties

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post

    This will never happen. Cocaine, meth, marijuana, LSD and the like will never be legalized because the People do not want it. It really is that simple.
    No it is not that simple, because you are lumping together drugs with very different pharmacological properties and very different affects on behavior, and very different long term effects.

    That lumping together is a major flaw with our present drug laws, an abject failure to correctly characterize and regulate in an honest manner with respect to the effects on behavior, sanity, and society.

    Also, it is becoming increasingly clear that the people do want marijuanna legalized. Think for just a moment and you will see how many states have either decriminalized or made the penalties a joke.
    What's happened to your state's rights viewpoint on this issue? Do you only believe in state's rights when the issue is something you care about, the topic we won't discuss here? I thought so.

    Sure, drug addicts and libertarians will continue to justify their actions but the fact is that it is anti-social behavior that causes harm to society.
    As one who never touched any of these things, nor drank more than a few sips of wine or half a glass of beer, I will offer the perspective of a non-addict for justifying changes to the law. The law in these cases is utterly irrational and ineffective, and it is thus precisely because of the way unrelated agents are lumped together.

    And no, I am not a crusty old man. I am a person who understands the damage drugs do to children and society. It is certainly not the harmless pasttime drug addicts portray.
    Well, I am a crusty old man, and I'm as square as a person can get. But I don't agree with our present approach. It doesn't work. It doesn't treat the underlying illness or social issues that drive demand, and it inflicts great expense and harm on society as well.

    I choke every morning when I read the newsy with the local police reports. Serious crime is at a minimum, but half a dozen get arrested almost every night for minor possession of everything from half a low dose xanax to a tiny amount of weed. It keeps 3 judges and a bunch of attorneys employed, so maybe there is something redeeming about this practice.

  11. #40
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    The DEA, by its own stats, only intercepts 10% of the drugs coming into this country. Marijuana can be grown in any state in the Union. Meth can be manufactured anywhere in the country. "Magic mushrooms" can be grown anywhere in the country. LSD is almost criminally easy to make with a halfway decent lab (excuse the unintentional pun). Our current federal drug policy is worse than Prohibition was. Before we criminalized drugs (due to a moralistic hypocrite of a newspaper owner named Hearst) we had a drug problem in this country, but the addicts were getting it from doctors, there was less crime and there weren't gangs getting obscenely rich and powerful off of it. Plus it is easier to get drugs now than cigarettes or alcohol. Oh, and don't forget the militarization of our law enforcement.

    Personally I like the Libertarian approach of punishing bad behaviors and actions, not having the government dictate what we do with our bodies in terms of ingesting drugs (wait until the "Health Care Reform" bill kicks in!). Educate, educate, educate, then when kids turn 18, they get to make decisions. If you sell drugs to a kid, you go to jail for life. If a drug addict wants help, we treat them for medical and psychological problems.

  12. #41
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    No it is not that simple, because you are lumping together drugs with very different pharmacological properties and very different affects on behavior, and very different long term effects.
    I'm surprised it took someone this long to use that argument. The reason I lumped them together because the arguments for drug abuse legalization do not discriminate between the horrific results from any drug. They use marijuana, a toxic, dangerous and damaging drug simply to open the door to their anarchistic (in the case of libertarians) or whatever feels good (in the case of both libertarians and liberals) regardless of the effects on society.

    That lumping together is a major flaw with our present drug laws, an abject failure to correctly characterize and regulate in an honest manner with respect to the effects on behavior, sanity, and society.
    Actually, our current drug laws do a very good job. The schedule drugs are properly characterized and regulated in a sane and satisfactory manner.

    Also, it is becoming increasingly clear that the people do want marijuanna legalized. Think for just a moment and you will see how many states have either decriminalized or made the penalties a joke.
    This is false. Most states want to keep marijuana illegal. That is a fact. There are some that have provided disinformation to the people regarding 'medical marijuana', as if patients in need require an unregulated, illegal drug. The truth is that the 'medical marijuana' is simply a ruse used by drug addicts. EVERY other prescription drug is regulated as to doas and is approved by the FDA. That governmental organization makes our drugs the safest in the world and is the primary reason we develop the most effective drugs.

    And, what the drug addicts don't want to hear, is that there is medical marijuana. It is called marinol and can be prescribed for REAL patients that require medical care.

    What's happened to your state's rights viewpoint on this issue? Do you only believe in state's rights when the issue is something you care about, the topic we won't discuss here? I thought so.
    What did you think? Of course my view is that each state should make drugs illegal and the Federal government should protect our national borders against incoming drugs. That is exactly my position of gun laws, as well. My position does not change dependent on the subject.

    As one who never touched any of these things, nor drank more than a few sips of wine or half a glass of beer, I will offer the perspective of a non-addict for justifying changes to the law. The law in these cases is utterly irrational and ineffective, and it is thus precisely because of the way unrelated agents are lumped together.
    I find the laws largely ineffective because many people condone illegal drug use and are unable to understand the harm it does to society. These people are self centered and narcissistic, an attribute of drug addicts.

    Fortunately, most people understand the harm, which is why illegal drugs are illegal.

    Well, I am a crusty old man, and I'm as square as a person can get. But I don't agree with our present approach. It doesn't work. It doesn't treat the underlying illness or social issues that drive demand, and it inflicts great expense and harm on society as well.
    Demand is driven by the attitude of some that think drug abuse is not a problem. That mindset is taught to children.

    I choke every morning when I read the newsy with the local police reports. Serious crime is at a minimum, but half a dozen get arrested almost every night for minor possession of everything from half a low dose xanax to a tiny amount of weed.
    You get local news that srious crime is at a minimum? Almost every day, it seems, I hear about one or two murders in Tucso, or a home invasion, or a bank robbery.

    However, serious crime does not diminish the necessity of curbing other crimes, both felonies and misdemeanors.

  13. #42
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoFan View Post
    The DEA, by its own stats, only intercepts 10% of the drugs coming into this country.
    I sense a note of glee. Rather than abandoning an effort because total success has not been met, I would redouble efforts to stop the flow of drugs. It is actually very easy. CLOSE THE BORDER.

    Marijuana can be grown in any state in the Union. Meth can be manufactured anywhere in the country. "Magic mushrooms" can be grown anywhere in the country. LSD is almost criminally easy to make with a halfway decent lab (excuse the unintentional pun).
    Banks can be robbed in any state of the union. Bombs can be manufactured anywhere in the country. Poison can be placed in the water supply anywhere. The fact that something can occur does not mean it should or that we shouldn't legislate penalties for robbing banks or poisoning water.

    Personally I like the Libertarian approach of punishing bad behaviors and actions,
    What am I not surprised? This forum is a libertarian haven like the Huffington post is to liberals. The wrong thinkink here is that libertarians think they can determine what a bad beahvior or action is. The fact remains that drug abuse harms society.

    Educate, educate, educate, then when kids turn 18, they get to make decisions.
    The problem is that kids are educated to believe drug abuse is not bad. They follow the examples of the drug addicts, liberals and libertarians that promte illegal drug use.

    If you sell drugs to a kid, you go to jail for life.
    Drugs are just as harmful to adults as they are to children. Sell an illegal drug, go to jail for life. I concur.

    If a drug addict wants help, we treat them for medical and psychological problems.
    If a bank robber wants help we should treat them, too? Otherwise we should leave them alone. It is their right to rob banks!

  14. #43
    Senior Member Array PointnClick's Avatar
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    With credibility dropping faster than our President's, SelfDefense sez...

    The truth is that the 'medical marijuana' is simply a ruse used by drug addicts. EVERY other prescription drug is regulated as to doas and is approved by the FDA. That governmental organization makes our drugs the safest in the world and is the primary reason we develop the most effective drugs.

    And, what the drug addicts don't want to hear, is that there is medical marijuana. It is called marinol and can be prescribed for REAL patients that require medical care.
    Right there, you demonstrated that you have no idea what you are talking about. There is no such thing as a marijuana addict.

    20 minutes at Wikipedia would make you sound a lot smarter... Talking to someone like Montel Williams that is dealing with the crippling effects of MS might help, too...
    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"

  15. #44
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointnClick View Post
    Right there, you demonstrated that you have no idea what you are talking about. There is no such thing as a marijuana addict.
    Drug addicts, like alcoholics, are often in denial about their addiction.

    20 minutes at Wikipedia would make you sound a lot smarter...
    Wikipedia... Anyone who spends 20 minutes on a web forum full of drivel never comes out smarter.

    Talking to someone like Montel Williams that is dealing with the crippling effects of MS might help, too...
    Who is Montel Williams? Is he related to Ted Williams?

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array PointnClick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Wikipedia... Anyone who spends 20 minutes on a web forum full of drivel never comes out smarter.


    You might... try it.



    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"

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