My thoughts on a weapons system for "MY" SHTF...

This is a discussion on My thoughts on a weapons system for "MY" SHTF... within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; First, some SHTF boundaries: My SHTF could be anything from a thug(s) breaking into my house to a Katrina size post-disaster event. That said, in ...

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Thread: My thoughts on a weapons system for "MY" SHTF...

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    My thoughts on a weapons system for "MY" SHTF...

    First, some SHTF boundaries:
    My SHTF could be anything from a thug(s) breaking into my house to a Katrina size post-disaster event. That said, in my area, hurricanes, tornados, flooding, prolonged power outages, restricted travel, etc. have been extremely rare, small scale, and localized. The only thing thatís disrupted life in my area in the past 50 years was a 22 inch snow which resulted in a 3 day power outage and that was really quite a manageable situation with very little prep. While we were out of power for 3 days, no more than two miles away gas, food, water, and life as we always knew it was still normal.

    However, the threat of a terrorist strike does add a new possibility, or something unexpected could occur leading to a SHTF situation. But whatever the cause of the disruption to normal life, I want to be prepared with a good defense plan and equipment to execute the plan. Food, water, power, clothing, shelter is all important, but this deals exclusively with defensive measures, specifically weapon systems.

    A SHTF situation could require evac (evacuation) or it may be possible to RIOAH (ride it out at home). So the defensive weaponry needs to work for either case.

    The evac seems to be a far more demanding situation because everything has to be transported and the essentials including guns and ammo have to fit in the evac vehicle(s). That got me to thinking about what firearms would be most advantageous in a evac situation and even the somewhat less demanding RIOAH.

    I came up with the following concepts to guide my efforts in establishing a well defined plan for a SHTF weapon system - simplicity, multiplicity, and redundancy

    Simplicity:
    Guns should be simple enough that most anyone could operate and fire them, esp. under stress, and with little prior knowledge. The thinking here is that spouses and/or neighbors who arenít gun people, could operate the gun with minimal instruction (i.e. donít shoot me).

    Simple would mean only one caliber of ammo. This circumvents having to buy, store, manage, inventory and transport large quantities of different caliber ammo. My ammo is going to be 9mm.

    The guns should be simple to clean, maintain, and even repair.

    Mulitplicity:
    Being Sig and H&K inclined, this is hard for me, but Iím thinking that my handguns are going to be Glocks - a G-26, a G19, a G17, and a G34; one type of gun in four different sizes that work alike. Glocks are ubiquitous and have about as simple manual of arms as it gets. They provide excellent multiplicity and redundancy Ė a lot of interchangeable parts, mags, internals, similar peripheral equipment such as sights, lights, lasers, holsters, etc.

    Redundancy:
    Well, kinda covered above and in the following.

    I believe in all but the most stringent situations a pistol caliber carbine (PCC) would suffice nicely as a long gun providing extended range, accuracy, and a bit more velocity and energy. In many situations a PCC would actually be better than a full blown rifle caliber.

    For a long gun it looks like itís going to be a Mech-Tech Carbine Conversion Unit. The Mech-Tech fills the desire for a long gun in a pistol caliber with a familiar gun format (Glock frame), again providing simplicity, multiplicity, and redundancy. The G-34 can be the belt gun carried in a SERPA holster; a G-19 could serve as secondary weapon in a SERPA holster with the shoulder harness option, and if called for, the G-26 could be carried in an ankle holster. The G-17 frame could be used with the Mech-Tech for the carbine. All use the same ammo, same mags; have the same trigger pull, etc.

    If the G-17 on the Mech-Tech was damaged, the G-34 frame could be substituted. The SERPA holster would be removed from the shoulder adaptor and worn on the belt so the G-19 would become the primary handgun and the G-26 the back-up. Lots of redundancy.

    Another interesting thing about using the Mech-Tech as a long gun is even more redundancy. Any light or laser that attaches to the Glock frame or frame rails could be used with the Mech-Tech. Just for comparison:

    Mech-tech Ė length = 31"
    Wt. = 5.65#
    Beretta Storm Ė length = 31.5Ē
    Wt = = 5.66#

    All I lack is a shoulder harness for the SERPA holster for the G-19 and a Mech-Tech CCU. Gonna consider this a little bit more and if I don't change my mind, I'll order a Mech-Tech for a G-17.

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    Senior Member Array '75scout's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good idea. I love my 26 and can't wait to get the 17. Never a single problem and very simple. Although I'd rather have something in a rifle caliber for a longarm. .223 and 308 wouldn't be all that hard to find. Either and AR or M1A would be what I choose. Maybe an AK because they are so reliable and you might not be able to properly clean the gun for some time.

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    "For a long gun it looks like it’s going to be a Mech-Tech Carbine Conversion Unit. The Mech-Tech fills the desire for a long gun in a pistol caliber with a familiar gun format (Glock frame), again providing simplicity, multiplicity, and redundancy."

    Very cool! I never saw a Glock with this. Have you shot one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by '75scout
    Sounds like a good idea. I love my 26 and can't wait to get the 17. Never a single problem and very simple. Although I'd rather have something in a rifle caliber for a longarm. .223 and 308 wouldn't be all that hard to find. Either and AR or M1A would be what I choose. Maybe an AK because they are so reliable and you might not be able to properly clean the gun for some time.
    Granted there could be some situations where a rifle would be a better tool than a PCC, but I'd be very, very reluctant to turn a .308 loose in my area. It just has too much range and penetration and there would be too many houses and people that could be "touched" by it.

    Hmmm, let me add, I'm going to sell my Romanian AK-47.

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    Oddly enough, speaking of SHTF, my profile/avitar pic is of me standing on the corner of St. Peter and Bourbon Street in New Orleans during rescue operations two days after Katrina. The AR is displayed there and there is also a Ruger Red Hawk (.44 Mag 7.5" Barrell) hanging on the right side. You must always be prepared. I was a volunteer doing search and rescue. The AR really makes the reporters nervous when you point it at them and say "if you stop pointing that camera at me I will stop point this at you" LOL!
    When my wife asks, "How many guns do you have?" I say, "I have plenty, but I am a few short of enough."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock
    "For a long gun it looks like itís going to be a Mech-Tech Carbine Conversion Unit. The Mech-Tech fills the desire for a long gun in a pistol caliber with a familiar gun format (Glock frame), again providing simplicity, multiplicity, and redundancy."

    Very cool! I never saw a Glock with this. Have you shot one?
    No. But I'm willing to bet the trigger feels a whole lot like a Glock.

    I've got a Mech-Tech for a 1911, but for some odd reason haven't shot it. It's for sale to help fund the Glock version.

    You probably saw it had a Picitinny rail on top - good for red dots and such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cajunammodump
    Oddly enough, speaking of SHTF, my profile/avitar pic is of me standing on the corner of St. Peter and Bourbon Street in New Orleans during rescue operations two days after Katrina...
    Lookin' good!



    Quote Originally Posted by cajunammodump
    ...The AR really makes the reporters nervous when you point it at them and say "if you stop pointing that camera at me I will stop point this at you" LOL!
    LOL!

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    Tangle - my opinion is for the situations where a rifle is a better choice than a PCC - it is probably the only suitable choice. Neutralizing fortified attackers, engaging targets at any significant range, engaging armored attackers or vehicles, etc.

    I still think a rifle in a major caliber (something bigger than a varmint round) as a 'stand by' weapon for handling those exceptional situations would be wise.

    Just a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe/OH
    Tangle - my opinion is for the situations where a rifle is a better choice than a PCC - it is probably the only suitable choice. Neutralizing fortified attackers, engaging targets at any significant range, engaging armored attackers or vehicles, etc.

    I still think a rifle in a major caliber (something bigger than a varmint round) as a 'stand by' weapon for handling those exceptional situations would be wise.

    Just a thought.
    I don't disagree necessiarily, but there's also the thought of swatting a fly with a 2x4. There are no fortified areas in my neighborhood, nor necessiarily significant ranges. Armored attackers would be a problem but a .223 (varmint round) would solve that problem where a 9mm may not.

    But we've gone from a post disaster situation in a neighborhood where there are lots of innocents all around, to a battlefield situtation consisting of armored persons and armored vehicles in an implied free-fire zone.

    For me, what I'm looking at is similar to the issues an apartment dweller has. There's people all around. If a round gets loose, it could very well strike a neighbor. In my case, I've got houses all around and people. If a .308 gets loose, it would very likely find it's way into somebody's house.

    A .308 is simply too powerful in an unstructured, uncontrolled, heavily populated area. A .223 wouldn't be as bad, but it can still travel a long way in a neighborhood.

    Also I want to be able to deal with an evac. If I had to get up and go in a hurry, I don't think I'd be able to take three handguns, different mags, different ammo; an AR-15, mags and ammo; a tactical shotgun and ammo; an AR-10, mags and ammo. Even if I could, where would I put all that when I got where I was going? If I have to abandon my transportation along the way, how am I going to deal with all that stuff?

    I can conceal three handguns, a PCC, ammo, and mags that fit both a whole lot easier than all that other stuff.

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    Joe,
    You do make some good points. I think I over-responded. I appreciate you input.

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    Nope - makes sense, and I definitely understand your concern. I wouldn't suggest swatting a fly with a 2x4 - but in the case I run into an amazonian mosquito, I would want more than my little fly swatter. :)

    It all boils down to a very personal decision - and I tend to over prepare (you should see my BOB!). But as you point out - too much gear can be a bad thing too.

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    Distinguished Member Array BCurry1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe/OH
    It all boils down to a very personal decision - and I tend to over prepare (you should see my BOB!). But as you point out - too much gear can be a bad thing too.
    Can you give me some examples of whats in your BOB, I am currently in the process of getting my BOB together.
    Curry

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    This is fine reasoning if you don't own any guns and suddenly "see the light" as to the need for a SHTF collection. However, I have spent my entire adult life collecting firearms and don't think I'm going to realign it with the specific scenario in mind. For reasons of $$$ I have always tended to limit myself to just four pistol calibers: .22, 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP. I have 2 12 guage shotties and my rifles follow the utilitarian calibers: .30-06; .223; .308 and I just picked up a hybrid -- a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 folding carbine in 40S&W that will accept the same mags as my Glock 40. So the Glock M27 and the Sub 2000 carbine become my trip guns, for ammo and mag compatibility. I have purchased three large wheeled plastic tool boxes that I have converted to ammo storage. I can extend the handles outward and this increased leverage eases the strain on my back of moving thousands of rounds wherever I need.

    Right now, due to terrain constraints until we leave the area of South Florida we have planned to simply RIOAH rather than become refugees trapped on just a few roads out of the area. Fortunately our home was built in 1932 and has survived without problem every major hurricane since that time. We're right now undertaking the appropriate financial planning to allow us both to retire in 5 years and move to the mountains of North Carolina and build our dream home.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Ex,

    I have three AR-15s, an AK-47, an AR-10, a Scattergun Technologies 870 Tactical shotgun, and Ithica police shotgun, a .223 bolt, three scopes, two Trijicon reflex sights, an Aimpoint ML red dot, and plenty of ammo for each.

    But the "light" I saw was when I opened up my mind to the possiblity that I could have to evac. If there's a chemical/biological/nuclear problem in my area, I've got to be able to "pack light". There's a lot of stuff that'll have to go besides guns and ammo.

    This really isn't a "specific scenario", it's just one that can happen, and an evac is the most difficult to deal with. Staying at home is relatively easy. I don't have to transport anything; it's all right there.

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    Member Array joe/OH's Avatar
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    BCurry - sent you an PM about the BOB to avoid getting off topic.

    Tangle, I don't think I could live with myself if I took three Glocks and left my AR-15's behind! :)

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