shtf soon ??

This is a discussion on shtf soon ?? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by ExSoldier762 What you describe, I don't define as a SHTF scenario. The infrastructure is in place to handle it and recovery will ...

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Thread: shtf soon ??

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    What you describe, I don't define as a SHTF scenario. The infrastructure is in place to handle it and recovery will be swift.

    A true SHTF scenario is like a WMD attack or a situation similar to Katrina but on an even larger scale. Infrastructure shattered. No services. No help: LEO, medical or mundane (like A/C repair!). Mass starvation since there will be no food distribution. Water plants fail. You get the idea. Riots are ONLY a problem to the general populace where gun control is strict. Just my .02
    I tend to agree that riots are not SHTF stuff, but I think riots that expand beyond LE's ability to contain them could tax systems to the breaking point and become SHTF material.

    You don't think Katrina was a SHTF situation for people in southern Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama? Large areas lost effective law enforcement, water and wastewater treatment, primary and secondary energy sources, emergency medical care, and their only access to food and other goods became through looting which was unofficial sanctioned by the government officials who actually remained in place. Sounds like a SHTF scenario to me.
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  3. #32
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    Ex, thanks.. I knew there was something funky! LOL. Emails resent.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
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  4. #33
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    I think we're just struggling with the "Scope" of "SHTF" and defining a common term and definition to apply so we're discussing the same magnitude of a problem. I usually thought of a SHTF as WMD, pandemic type stuff, but Katrina made me broaden my definition. Somebody in the 9th Ward of NO probably thought "this is a SHTF"!

    Likewise, the LA/Watts riots, or Detroit riots might have been considered likewise. A large west coast earthquake would be even larger. Here in rural Texas, a tornado wouldn't be, but if I lived in DFW and they started rioting, the police lost control...and it went on for several days and nights.....in my thoughts that'd be a localized SHTF.

    Do we want to define SHTF so we're all on the same page? Maybe define it by geographic scope? Say, a "Local" SHTF, a "Regional" SHTF, a "National" SHTF, or worse, a "Global" SHTF? That gives us a common terminolgy and language to use when having these discussions. Just my .02.

  5. #34
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    My definition

    SHTF = An scenario where the Social, Private & Public Services get overwhelmed by natural or other causes interrupting the normal course of life of the citizens in the area and endagering their lives.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
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  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    SHTF is akin to porn , or good art , its hard to define but i know it when i see it , katrina was shtf for many but not me since i live in colorado and had neither the effects of the storm nor the fallout of the evacuees , the same with the watts riots , i guess shtf is what impacts a persons daily life to the point that going to work , taking the kids to school , ect .. is a danger, or an imposibility.. ect.. i am trying to say when your day to day life is interupted by factors out of your control , and you can no longer maintain your normal lifestyle is shtf.. as stated its hard to boil down but easy to recognise

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs
    SHTF is akin to porn , or good art , its hard to define but i know it when i see it


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  8. #37
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Talking Timing is EVERYTHING.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72
    But back to SHTF- we already know that LA, Laredo, Houston, Dallas, many other major cities have neighborhoods that the PD will not respond to unless it's enmasse. With the infrastructure of the gangs pumping up the unaffiliated, start two conflicts in seperate boroughs/counties/whathaveyou, make a rush on two of the city's major hospitals, and you've effectively shut down the city. Fire/EMS/PD/SO can't afford to go far from their stations or they'll be burned and/or their vehicles mobbed. Truckers making deliveries? Haha. NG- well, how many cities go up at the same time? 6? Across the country. You'd have to have a shoot-to-kill curfew. Lots of "normal folk" would be less than tolerant of that situation.

    NO was a primer. The degree of ugliness just depends on breadth and penetration of the threat.
    Not to be PUNishing about this...but riots have a tendency to ummmmm burn themselves out... Sorry, I HAD to!

    Really, look at the LA riot. That went what....three days? Four? No more than a week for sure. Yeah it was ugly. But the steam tends to run out pretty quickly. Even in this situation with a lot of folks who might be indigenious to pour some fuel on the fire.....in the end, they can't maintain the energy levels.....on their own. Now, with some form of accelerant to add heat....like a KATRINA....things get a little more fast and loose. But that was still a regional event. The infrastructure returned and although it took awhile, a lot of that was part of a learning curve for the powers that be at all levels of government.

    Still, there was talk that LA might spread. That was mostly media hype. EVEN IF the Mexican/latino populations managed to pull off simultaneous strikes, I seriously doubt their ability to prolong the events.

    Make no mistake, it will be hairy. The worst part is that we won't be able to count on the NG mostly because they're deployed! That won't change anytime soon. But they're not our only option. It would be much worse if we were a smaller nation, but our sheer size works in our favor, as does the terrain in most instances. As does the weather, especially further north.

    As I see it, short term this is not a SHTF scenario. Long term if we fail to militarize our borders...well that's something else. But I'm not going to make projections that far out without a lot more research.

    I personally define a true SHTF scenario as being time driven. Basically the apocalypse. An event or series of events for which a return to anything resembling normalcy will take five to ten years or longer.

    That my friends, is the terrorist nuclear attack. Not a so called "dirty bomb" but a true device and possibly (probably) more than one.

    IMHO, it is not nationwide race riots.....by themselves. Just my .02.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  9. #38
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    I think SHTF is in the eye of the guy caught in the middle of it. For us not in LA, the Rodney King riots were someething to watch on TV, but for a Korean grocer trying to defend his store it was truly a SHTF.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    +1 miggy

  11. #40
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    Ex, right most do, but some don't. Think about the riots in Russia in the early 1900's. They were seized by Lennin and we had the Soviet Union. The students in Iran overthrew the Shaw. Even here in the US, the Boston Tea party (I'm playing lose with the defination of a riot).

    I'm not saying that it will happen here soon, but if there's enough civil unrest it can.
    Dave

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  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    IMHO, it is not nationwide race riots.....by themselves. Just my .02.
    We're on the same page. I see La Raza/La Reconquista as being either a primary or secondary(take your pick) wave in a larger action. Burn half a dozen cities to the ground, and you have chaos, follow it up with bio or nuclear.............

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