Remembering a different Cronkite - Page 2

Remembering a different Cronkite

This is a discussion on Remembering a different Cronkite within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Hopyard Dave H.: Sometime in late 1968 I was traveling through O'Hare Airport and happened upon a couple in their mid 40s, ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Dave H.:
    Sometime in late 1968 I was traveling through O'Hare Airport and happened upon a couple in their mid 40s, apparently returning from a visit with a wounded son at a military hospital.

    I don't remember the name of the battle, but it was urban, because their son complained that while they were fighting, the Vietnamese teenagers were going about their business.

    That did it for me.

    Not to rehash the latter half of the 1960s, but I remember the 1968 convention well, and no one acquitted themselves properly. It cost the Dems two elections and had incalculable repurcussions within our society that are still being felt.

    We buried Robert McNamara about a week ago. Let's bury the 1960s.

    Except for a few guys my age +/-, it is ancient history. We have decent relations with the Vietnamese government; better than with many others.
    You can call that a victory if you want. You can call that evidence that we made a bad call fighting in the first place. I don't care. I just don't want to hear about it any more.

    And for those who didn't live through any of that period as adults, I really don't want to hear what you think you got from a HS history book or a tv commentator 20 years after the fact. So if you were born after 1955, never subject to conscription, and don't have conscious direct adult knowledge of the times, please do me a favor and don't grace my post with a reply.
    Did you serve in the military?

    Were you in Viet Nam while the war was going on?
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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Blaming folks like Cronkite is too easy.
    . . . . just don't appreciate hearing from "historians," (commentators and entertainers) who are way too young to have any recollection of the events, to have been involved,
    You may think it is too easy, but it is a prime starting point. You may think that only the older persons have a sufficient understanding. Let's take that one step further and add those older men who were actually there on the ground, as compared to some wuss with a microphone, being pussyfooted around.

    As I said earlier - I was there and we had stomped the hell out of the enemy. The other men on this site who were there seem to concur. Just because Cronkite discovered that the enemy could start a fight, though futile as it was, Cronkite tucked his tail and ran, and had the additional luxury of having the mechanism (TV) to do the enemy's bidding by brainwashing the public on his nightly spot on TV. The American public, mistakenly trusted him the same as Madoff's customers trusted him.

    As to youth -- my children seem to do quite well in analyzing the history of it all.
    I don't like to remember any of it. It hurts.
    If you were there and were injured in battle, then I will apologize for being a little rough on you.

  3. #18
    kpw
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    Hopyard, you talk like the outcome of the war was a forgone conclusion from the very beginning. It wasn't. It was lost by politicians and the media. The fact is, men like my dad, my uncle Jeff, my uncle Rick, my good friend Mike, SatCong and so many more were the best of their generation and they were betrayed by their government and the home news media. Personally, I think their ability to forgive as much as they have speaks volumes about their character. I don't ever want to forget them and I don't want our future generations to either. I'm not a historian, I just relate what I hear from men I know and trust. Wish you knew more like them.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillep Harding View Post
    I agree about Cronkite and Rather, and there's several others who are still around I wish would just vanish. Live or dead, I don't care.

    Actually, I'd like for them to move to Cuba, Iran, or Venezuela.
    Don't forget my sweetheart JANE.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    Hopyard, you talk like the outcome of the war was a forgone conclusion from the very beginning. It wasn't. It was lost by politicians and the media. The fact is, men like my dad, my uncle Jeff, my uncle Rick, my good friend Mike, SatCong and so many more were the best of their generation and they were betrayed by their government and the home news media.
    +1

    Wasn't the Vietnam war successful in that it took billions and billions of Russian/Chinese dollars and resources to back the communist Vietnamese and thus kept communism at bay from spreading rampantly through out Europe and Asia in the 1960s?
    “Put your pain in a box. Lock it down. No man is stronger than one who can harness his emotions.” -Act of Valor

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I didn't intend to diminish the enormity of the numbers of folks involved at the time. I was writing in terms of a % of folks in our population living today who lived through that era. The vietnam era vet is a small fraction of our population and of this board.

    I did not mean to in any way imply that only a few folks were caught up in that event. Too many.

    There has been a long term feud in this country which remains unsettled as to why that war became a catastrophe. Blaming folks like Cronkite is too easy. What about Madam Gno and her husband and the monks who immolated themselves to get those two out of power? ; and Madam Gno's curse on the Kennedy family that, "the chickens will come home to roost." The game may well have been over at that point, a year or so before the Gulf of Tonkien incident and several years before the 1968 events. So, you are right, you need to know your history. And you need to know the history even back to the French defeat.

    I don't believe in the power of curses, but the chickens did come home to roost, sadly, and in a very very bad way.

    And that is a part of the history of that conflict as well. So, let's remember that the whole era was extremely complex politically, militarily, and diplomatically, and blaming media is at best only one place to lay the blame, to focus anger.

    My point was that the architect, McNamara is gone. Cronkite is gone. Let's let them go in peace by not arguing events that were so horrific and which happened so long ago.

    I just don't appreciate hearing from "historians," (commentators and entertainers) who are way too young to have any recollection of the events, to have been involved, and who now (as then) try to make a catastrophe into a partisan issue.

    I don't like to remember any of it. It hurts.
    If you wish to voice your opinion then it is offensive to say the least to tell others not to voice theirs no matter what age they are. Or maybe you are the new administrator. As a matter of fact there are other members here besides yourself.
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  7. #22
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    "Upon his return, Cronkite pronounced the war a "hopeless stalemate" and advised his audience that the United States should negotiate an end to the war and get out as soon as we could. President Johnson, hearing this, was purported to have exclaimed: "If I've lost Cronkite I've lost Middle America." One month later, he declined to run again for the presidency."

    This is what I remember the man for. Yes he was trusted, but it was because we thought him to be impartial. When he issued this statement on the air I never could believe him to be impartial again. He was no longer a newscaster but had become an analyst. I do not believe you can mingle the two together.

    Michael

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SatCong View Post
    Don't forget my sweetheart JANE FONDA.
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  9. #24
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    WHich was more corrosive?

    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    "Upon his return, Cronkite pronounced the war a "hopeless stalemate" and advised his audience that the United States should negotiate an end to the war and get out as soon as we could. President Johnson, hearing this, was purported to have exclaimed: "If I've lost Cronkite I've lost Middle America." One month later, he declined to run again for the presidency."

    This is what I remember the man for. Yes he was trusted, but it was because we thought him to be impartial. When he issued this statement on the air I never could believe him to be impartial again. He was no longer a newscaster but had become an analyst. I do not believe you can mingle the two together.

    Michael
    So which was more corrosive of public opinion, what President Johnson said of Cronkite's comment, "if I've lost Cronkite I've lost
    Middle America," or what McNamara said in 1965 or was it 1966--"the boys will be home by Christmas." Cronkite merely articulated what the public felt and what the reality was.

    Indeed, if Secry. of Defense McNamara had kept his mouth shut, it is possible the public may have stayed with the game longer.

    Either way, both are dead, and it is unseemly to speak ill of the dead.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Either way, both are dead, and it is unseemly to speak ill of the dead.
    BULL, How about the 50,000+ dead.Bet you never seen action. The two men you speak of is nothing, compared to the our men that lost their lives over for nothing.I don't know if I should hate you or feel sorry for you.You don't get it and never well.I do know I wouldn't sit and have a beer with you.
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  11. #26
    Senior Member Array SilenceDoGood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    How do you feel about the millions of people murdered BECAUSE WE WITHDREW?

    Cronkite was a catalyst that infected public opinion with his anti-American rhetoric and outright lies.



    I was born in 1956 and my birthday was picked fifth a year after the draft was terminated. I agree that the history books of today probably do not protray the era in an unbiased description but since my father was a wounded war veteran I paid close attention to the war and the surrounding politics.

    I appreciate your opinion but the fact remains MILLIONS of people died, partly because of Walter Cronkite.
    The things you say never cease to amaze me. I want you to research logical fallacies.

    here is a link with a good start. One you should really pay attention to, because it is a theme throughout your posts, is the post hoc fallacy.

    Also check appeal to emotion, appeal authority, and begging the question.
    "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceDoGood View Post
    The things you say never cease to amaze me. I want you to research logical fallacies.

    here is a link with a good start. One you should really pay attention to, because it is a theme throughout your posts, is the post hoc fallacy.

    Also check appeal to emotion, appeal authority, and begging the question.
    I suggest you familiarize yourself with the skill of debate and logic.

    As is typical of those whose arguments cannot stand rational scrutiny or even superficial thought, you have failed to even hint at the cause of your emotional appeal. And without argument at that!

    But you have the buzzwords down!

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array SilenceDoGood's Avatar
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    The one I specifically told you to check out was post hoc, as it directly deals with this post.

    You say "how about the millions of people murdered because we withdrew?"

    I say, this is a post hoc fallacy for the following reasons:

    It's post hoc because the "millions of people that were murded" were done so without any directly correlation between Walter Cronkite and the people. Walter Cronkite wasn't the cause of "millions of people [being murdered] (the effect)."

    The other buzzwords are themes throughout your other posts hotshot.

    Post hoc: This fallacy is committed when it is concluded that one event causes another simply because the proposed cause occurred before the proposed effect. More formally, the fallacy involves concluding that A causes or caused B because A occurs before B and there is not sufficient evidence to actually warrant such a claim.

    Seriously this time, read the link.

    P.s.
    Oh, and I'm actually in college in small part thanks to a Lincoln Douglas debate scholarship see (Forensics team). Good try though.
    "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    So which was more corrosive of public opinion, what President Johnson said of Cronkite's comment, "if I've lost Cronkite I've lost
    Middle America," or what McNamara said in 1965 or was it 1966--"the boys will be home by Christmas." Cronkite merely articulated what the public felt and what the reality was.

    Indeed, if Secry. of Defense McNamara had kept his mouth shut, it is possible the public may have stayed with the game longer.

    Either way, both are dead, and it is unseemly to speak ill of the dead.
    I'm only talking about Cronkites credibility as a newscaster. When he made that statement on his news program he was no longer impartial is all I am saying. His job was not to articulate what people felt. His job was to give us the news without adding any personal feelings to it. Editorials are not news, they are opinions. I watched his show for unbiased news, not opinions.

    Michael

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SatCong View Post
    BULL, How about the 50,000+ dead.Bet you never seen action. The two men you speak of is nothing, compared to the our men that lost their lives over for nothing.I don't know if I should hate you or feel sorry for you.You don't get it and never well.I do know I wouldn't sit and have a beer with you.
    I served 20 years in the Army, but was too young to have served in Vietnam. But my personal belief is that they didn't die for nothing.

    They died for all of us.
    The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. ~ Albert Einstein

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