Health Care Your Solution?

Health Care Your Solution?

This is a discussion on Health Care Your Solution? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I think most of us can agree that govt. healthcare is not the solution and I think we have some pretty smart people on this ...

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Thread: Health Care Your Solution?

  1. #1
    Member Array farmerbyron's Avatar
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    Health Care Your Solution?

    I think most of us can agree that govt. healthcare is not the solution and I think we have some pretty smart people on this forum so let's brainstorm. I've got 4 ideas that I am pretty sure would go a long way to making our health system better and more affordable. Just let me know of any negatives that you see with these proposals.

    1. Make health insurance tax deductible. If you own your own business you can deduct it so why shouldn't everyone be able to?

    2. Make all medical procedures have the price listed so you can compare different hospitals, labs, docs. We need some free market competition to bring costs under control. You wouldn't go buy a car and tell the dealership to bill you so why would you do that with healthcare that costs as much or more than a car?

    3. Make the minimum deductible $2000 per year for all health plans. When a third party pays you do not care what it costs. If you have a little "skin" in the game you are more likely to ask if a test is necessary or if there are alternatives. Plus this should have the effect of lowering everyone's premiums.

    4. Tort reform. For instance if your wife is pregnant a doctor probably won't see you if you do not get a complete blood work done including tests for HIV, STDs, etc. because his malpractice insurance wants to have all bases covered. If you know your clean, you could save $3-400 in initial blood work right there. Just expand that logic to the whole system.

    IF you have ideas please share. Let's put our heads together.
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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmerbyron View Post
    I think most of us can agree that govt. healthcare is not the solution and I think we have some pretty smart people on this forum so let's brainstorm. I've got 4 ideas that I am pretty sure would go a long way to making our health system better and more affordable. Just let me know of any negatives that you see with these proposals.

    1. Make health insurance tax deductible. If you own your own business you can deduct it so why shouldn't everyone be able to?

    2. Make all medical procedures have the price listed so you can compare different hospitals, labs, docs. We need some free market competition to bring costs under control. You wouldn't go buy a car and tell the dealership to bill you so why would you do that with healthcare that costs as much or more than a car?

    3. Make the minimum deductible $2000 per year for all health plans. When a third party pays you do not care what it costs. If you have a little "skin" in the game you are more likely to ask if a test is necessary or if there are alternatives. Plus this should have the effect of lowering everyone's premiums.

    4. Tort reform. For instance if your wife is pregnant a doctor probably won't see you if you do not get a complete blood work done including tests for HIV, STDs, etc. because his malpractice insurance wants to have all bases covered. If you know your clean, you could save $3-400 in initial blood work right there. Just expand that logic to the whole system.

    IF you have ideas please share. Let's put our heads together.
    The only true and simple solution is to pull the government out of the decision process all together.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    The only true and simple solution is to pull the government out of the decision process all together.
    What he said.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Have you checked out www.conservativestronghold.com/vbulletin ?

    I doubt the political hot-potato that this thread is, unrelated to SD, will allow it to stay open long but the discussion is going on over at the link above.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    re: farmerbyron

    Quote Originally Posted by farmerbyron View Post
    Just let me know of any negatives that you see with these proposals.
    O.K. I'll play. Here are some counter points.
    1. Make health insurance tax deductible. If you own your own business you can deduct it so why shouldn't everyone be able to?
    It was like that once upon a time. Even today, you can deduct the cost of your health insurance and your other medical expenses if you itemize and in total the costs exceed 7.5 % of your gross income.

    So, this suggested change isn't really terribly different from what we already do. It would be nice if the threshold for deducting medical expenses were lowered, but we tried it that way and that didn't work either. So, its messed up either way.

    2. Make all medical procedures have the price listed so you can compare different hospitals, labs, docs. We need some free market competition to bring costs under control. You wouldn't go buy a car and tell the dealership to bill you so why would you do that with healthcare that costs as much or more than a car?
    Sounds good. But which prices will they post? Their highest? The Medicare reimbursement rates? The Blues' contract rates? Their best PPO rate? If you wanted to do this, the insurers would also have to give up their special reimbursement rates which the general public never knows. We see a bill for $3,500. The insurance company pays $750. To make this proposal work, and to get true price competition, would require some major changes in the way the insurance companies do business. Also, in many cases you have few choices about a single practitioner. There will be no price competition no matter what. Can you really shop prices in a crisis?

    3. Make the minimum deductible $2000 per year for all health plans. When a third party pays you do not care what it costs. If you have a little "skin" in the game you are more likely to ask if a test is necessary or if there are alternatives. Plus this should have the effect of lowering everyone's premiums.
    Sounds good until you realize that there a great many people who can't possibly afford a 2K deductible and will avoid getting treatment
    when things are still minor problems instead of major expensive ones. Two hundred buck (which many won't have) to properly treat a bladder infection can quickly morph into thousand and thousands if the infection moves up into the kidneys. Do we really want people putting off care when the treatment is quick, easy, and inexpensive, only to have major calamities due to delays?

    4. Tort reform. For instance if your wife is pregnant a doctor probably won't see you if you do not get a complete blood work done including tests for HIV, STDs, etc. because his malpractice insurance wants to have all bases covered. If you know your clean, you could save $3-400 in initial blood work right there. Just expand that logic to the whole system.
    Tort reform will accomplish nothing. It has been tried extensively in a few states. Here, it is almost impossible to sue for malpractice. It has had no effect on prices, insurance premiums. Then also, it has been widely found that only 50% of all care meets the standard of care for the diagnosis. The docs are lucky government mostly keeps them out of court, because they too often do a pretty poor job. My wife was almost killed during a hospitalization because the nurses thought they had lab. results from blood drawn from my wife, and there was a mix up. If she was killed, or if she suffered a stroke, should I have been left without recourse? That is what tort reform will lead to. Do you (we) really want that?

    IF you have ideas please share. Let's put our heads together.
    1) Single payer; Medicare style for all. It actually works quite well.

    2) Produce about 6 times the number of docs each year to drive the cost down by real competition. I just checked with the local state operated medical school on their budget. It cost 40 million each year to produce a little more than 100 docs. Surely we could operate our medical schools in a more efficient manner and greatly increase production of physicians.

    3) Be realistic about not providing futile care that costs a bundle at the end of life. Before someone jumps on me about saving grandma, I can tell you it is only a matter of time before I will need dialysis or a kidney transplant. I intend when the time comes to seek hospice care. There's no point throwing money away trying to keep an old goat dropping beans on internet forums.

    4) Increase the number of nurse practitioners who can handle very routine problems

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    Member Array cz2075bd's Avatar
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    1) Tort reform, this is KEY. Obama has no interest, in bed with trial lawyers
    2) Get health plans portable, across jobs and across state lines
    3) Expand and promote tax-free HSA's. Amount should roll over, not be use-or-lose. Savings should be tappable for other reasons in hardship cases (unemployment, etc.). At retirement age, savings should be usable for retirement, and at death, remaing balance should go to beneficiaries.
    4) Public information exchange showing the average amount the provider gets paid by insurance (after markdowns) for various services and procedures. If you don't have insurance, this is important info, this is what you should aim to pay out of pocket instead of the MSRP
    5) Increase free walk-in clinics for uninsured below poverty line, and walk-in retail clinics for uninsured above poverty line
    6) Yes, make health insurance tax deductible if you share the cost w/ your employer
    7) Need to encourage more people to enter medical profession, through tax reform, tort reform, student loan reform, and med school admissions policies reform
    8) NO GOVERNMENT OPTION or TAKEOVER!!
    9) Stop illegal immigration

  7. #7
    Member Array cz2075bd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Be realistic about not providing futile care that costs a bundle at the end of life. Before someone jumps on me about saving grandma, I can tell you it is only a matter of time before I will need dialysis or a kidney transplant. I intend when the time comes to seek hospice care. There's no point throwing money away trying to keep an old goat dropping beans on internet forums.
    That's your perogative and I agree in the case of, say, a kidney transplant where there are long waits [though if you have a willing donor such as a family member, and can pay for the surgery, then you should be able to get even a kidney transplant at any age], but I disagree strongly with mandating a requirement about quality of life, remaining life expectancy, or some metric about contribution to or burden on society when it comes to more basic things such as blood pressure medications or even nutrition and hydration. The current bill in congress basically forces you to get duty-to-die counseling every 5 years once you become a senior citizen. It's a slippery slope from here to involuntary euthanasia which is already happening in Nordic countries.

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    If she was killed, or if she suffered a stroke, should I have been left without recourse? That is what tort reform will lead to. Do you (we) really want that?
    You think there will be recourse in a single payer system? I know that isn't what is proposed - yet. But when the "reform" fails to fix anything and Insurance is driven out of business then that's all we'll have left. Besides the fact that it's the stated goal (a single payer system) of many in politics right now.

    You don't get to sue the fire department or the police when they fail to save your life and in a single payer system, you won't be suing government paid hospitals or doctors.

    TORT reform shouldn't eliminate recourse, only cap outragous awards.

    The question is, "what has changed since medical insurance was affordable?" I say the answer and the cause of rising costs is lawsuits and expensive awards along with malpractice insurance trying to cover their butts.

    When your shocks go bad in your car and it starts handling poorly, you don't buy new tires to fix the problem, you replace the bad shocks.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    Senior Member Array PointnClick's Avatar
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    Hopyard sez...

    1) Single payer; Medicare style for all. It actually works quite well.
    I generally agree with Hopyard most of the time, but this is a non-starter for me. The guvernment can't pave roads. Show me one guv program that doesn't hemorhage money, and I might give this idea a second look.

    VA...? The way we treat our heroes is an embarassment.

    Postal service...? Billions in deficits.

    Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid...? All going bankrupt.

    Amtrak...? Don't make me laugh.

    Liberals with MBAs and legal degrees seem to think they know more about running a convenience store than the man that ACTUALLY RUNS THE STORE. The Federal government cannot run any business better than the private sector. We cannot allow them to control 20% of our economy, because they only know how to run up deficits, and they will bankrupt this nation.
    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointnClick View Post
    Liberals with MBAs and legal degrees seem to think they know more about running a convenience store than the man that ACTUALLY RUNS THE STORE. The Federal government cannot run any business better than the private sector. We cannot allow them to control 20% of our economy, because they only know how to run up deficits, and they will bankrupt this nation.
    AMEN - profit motive and competition is what keeps costs down and continued innovation.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cz2075bd View Post
    5) Increase free walk-in clinics for uninsured below poverty line, and walk-in retail clinics for uninsured above poverty line
    So who's going to pay for that one? You? Me? I don't think so...
    Nothing is free. Someone is putting in the effort and labor to make that "free" walk-in clinic work. That means it's either coming from donations, or the .gov. The only way the .gov can get it is by force through taxes.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    Senior Member Array Geezer's Avatar
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    Put a cap on the amount that can be awarded in malpractice lawsuits. That would (possibly) reduce the ins preminums that the doctors/hospitals have to recoup from their patients. And for pete's sake, stop treating those useless illegal aliens.

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    Obamacare will be a bureacratic nightmare.



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    Gonna spend your money.

    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

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    It is different with health care

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    AMEN - profit motive and competition is what keeps costs down and continued innovation.
    It is different with health care. There is plenty of profit motive. There has been no cost containment. There is no free market in health care and hasn't been for decades.

    This is why we need a drastic increase in the number of physicians being produced, a great increase in the number of nurse-practitioners and physician's assistant's licensed.

    What the free market does have to contribute is price reduction from competition. What we have now is inusfficient numbers of practitioners to provide for true competition.

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    I just kicked myself

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    Have you checked out Conservative Stronghold - Powered by vBulletin ?

    I doubt the political hot-potato that this thread is, unrelated to SD, will allow it to stay open long but the discussion is going on over at the link above.
    I just kicked myself. I bit the bait. Yeah, its too political for DC and should be shut down.

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