Looks like E-Verify is going to happen after all. - Page 2

Looks like E-Verify is going to happen after all.

This is a discussion on Looks like E-Verify is going to happen after all. within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; If you are working legally in this country, you have to have a valid Social Security Number. Now there is nothing to say that the ...

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    If you are working legally in this country, you have to have a valid Social Security Number. Now there is nothing to say that the valid SSN is the person's presenting it. Same goes for Birth Certificates. I agree that we should not have to produce an ID to get on a bus or a train or check into a hotel. I also know that employers either know or suspect when they are hiring illegals. Now they at least have some way to check such things if they are operating on the up and up. And fewer excuses if they are not.

    And as I recall, in most states you can get a photo ID that serves in place of a Driver's License for free or a very reasonable fee.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    So, do you want to make it a law that everyone must get a DL at 16? Not that doing so would solve the missing papers issue.

    Lots of people don't learn to drive at 16 because their parents can't afford it, don't own a car, or live in the middle of big cities where cars aren't a necessity. There are kids who don't have library cards, school photo id, etc., because they are schooled at home and don't use public resources. what are they to use for ID if a BC can't be located?

    The fact is, a small but not insignificant proportion of people born here do not have "papers." I had a boss who was born in the mid-west, served in the Army and was honorably discharged, but didn't have and couldn't get a birth certificate* because the town hall had burned down. It was big time fun for him when he needed a passport.

    Besides, we should be able to go about our business without having to produce papers like in all the totalitarian places you all concern yourselves with. The need for ID is a relatively new thing. Now we have Red Lock Rules; hotels asking for ID; and DL being used as an internal passport even to get on a bus or buy an Amtrack ticket. IT is all very "expedient" and fundamentally wrong.
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    *Not that a birth certificate has ever actually been any form of proof that the bearer is actually the individual who was born on the day and at the location indicated. The whole entire system is deeply flawed.
    I lost my BC and got a replacement over the phone. It's not hard at all.
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  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Slim_45's Avatar
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    Well its a good start
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  4. #19
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    It's the most efficient and accurate program the government runs.
    Let me correct that. It's the only program the government runs efficiently and it is very accurate.

    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson

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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim_45 View Post
    Well its a good start
    That's about all, a start. Close the borders down, tight!
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  6. #21
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    re: varob

    Quote Originally Posted by varob View Post
    I lost my BC and got a replacement over the phone. It's not hard at all.
    .
    I guess different rules in different places, but if it is that easy, then it isn't really a good document for proof of anything, is it?

    In fact years back it was somewhat fashionable for "authors" to write books on how to create false identities. The first step was always getting a new BC; often easily done as you note. It was generally suggested that folks visit a grave yard, and read the obits to figure out to which city or county to write for a replacement.

    Herein lies the crux of two problems. The underlying documents are not reliable, and there still are folks who can't get documents they legitimately should have and should be able to get.

  7. #22
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    You betcha

    Quote Originally Posted by AutoFan View Post
    I also know that employers either know or suspect when they are hiring illegals.
    Isn't this really the heart of the illegal immigration issue? It is the ones who not only suspect but know full well that enabled the mess we have now.

  8. #23
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    If this can do something to help eliminate illegals, than i'm for it and i will take my chances that it might inconvience me now or in the future.

  9. #24
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    If this can do something to help eliminate illegals, than i'm for it and i will take my chances that it might inconvience me now or in the future.
    Amen!
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  10. #25
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Really? Why are the "Americans and legal aliens" jobs being taken I might ask? Maybe if the Americans and legal aliens weren't dirty rotten lazy ...well you know. they wouldn't "lose" jobs. It's a fair fight folks. No fight in life is ever fair, but this one is. SUCK IT UP! Simple fact of the matter is that the "illegals" work harder, cheaper. You want the job that you think some "illegal" "Stole" from you? DO A BETTER JOB!

    Flippin lazy buggers are getting on my nerves. Yes, I'm a ribs and corn-fed, white american and no, my job hasn't been stolen and I work my hind end off for it too!

    /RANT OFF
    I agree with you that lazy people get their jobs stolen, but I'd like to point out that the fight is not fair. The fight is between legal labor and illegal labor. If you were in the business of selling car stereo equipment and some guy in the parking lot was undercutting you by selling stolen gear, would that be a fair fight? Of course he sells his gear cheaper. If he charged the same price, he would have no customers. Who would take the risk of buying stolen gear if there was no incentive (cash savings)?

    You're making it sound like employers are just looking for the best workers and they are willing to risk violating the law to get them. No. The employers in question hire the cheapest labor they can get, which is cheap because it's illegal.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Really? Why are the "Americans and legal aliens" jobs being taken I might ask? Maybe if the Americans and legal aliens weren't dirty rotten lazy ...well you know. they wouldn't "lose" jobs. It's a fair fight folks. No fight in life is ever fair, but this one is. SUCK IT UP! Simple fact of the matter is that the "illegals" work harder, cheaper. You want the job that you think some "illegal" "Stole" from you? DO A BETTER JOB!

    Flippin lazy buggers are getting on my nerves. Yes, I'm a ribs and corn-fed, white american and no, my job hasn't been stolen and I work my hind end off for it too!

    /RANT OFF
    You really don't have a leg to stand on when talking about illegal versus legal. It's not really about lazy. It's about not wanting to work for $2 a hr which is why illegals are being hired. That and not having to provide benefits like unemployment insurance, worker's compensation, etc.
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  12. #27
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    I agree with you that lazy people get their jobs stolen, but I'd like to point out that the fight is not fair. The fight is between legal labor and illegal labor. If you were in the business of selling car stereo equipment and some guy in the parking lot was undercutting you by selling stolen gear, would that be a fair fight? Of course he sells his gear cheaper. If he charged the same price, he would have no customers. Who would take the risk of buying stolen gear if there was no incentive (cash savings)?

    You're making it sound like employers are just looking for the best workers and they are willing to risk violating the law to get them. No. The employers in question hire the cheapest labor they can get, which is cheap because it's illegal.
    We're not talking about stolen gear here. We're talking about two people making an agreement where 1 agrees to work for 2, and 2 agrees to pay 1 the agreed upon amount. It has nothing to do with stolen property. Again. Define illegal and then ask yourself why it's illegal. It's not illegal just because. It's illegal because they work under the table in such a fashion that many times Uncle Sam isn't able to ROB THEM.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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  13. #28
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    Pack, it is our house!!

    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    It's not illegal just because. It's illegal because they work under the table in such a fashion that many times Uncle Sam isn't able to ROB THEM.
    It is our house. We have a right to determine who may live here, and who may work here. The illegality comes from entering the country in an illegal manner. Those who do so compete for jobs with those who are legally here and they have the unfair advantage of being willing (due to their illegal status) to work for less than the law allows.

    The employers who hire them (and it is almost always a deliberate decision) cheat the illegals they hire by underpaying, cheat our own citizens and legal aliens by "giving" jobs those lawfully here should have to others, cheat our government out of tax payments and social security payments, promote identity theft, and bring great pain to our society as a whole. These employers are the bottom scum of our society as much as any drug dealer. They are scum even when they are large corporations, or I should say especially when they are large corporations.

    This isn't about a libertarian free-market theology, unless in your concept of such the borders should be open between all countries and people should be free to migrate across the globe as they wish.
    Obviously few in any of the developed countries think that is a good idea. To allow that would be like you letting anyone off the street sleep in your house and eat at your table.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    It is our house. We have a right to determine who may live here, and who may work here. The illegality comes from entering the country in an illegal manner. Those who do so compete for jobs with those who are legally here and they have the unfair advantage of being willing (due to their illegal status) to work for less than the law allows.

    The employers who hire them (and it is almost always a deliberate decision) cheat the illegals they hire by underpaying, cheat our own citizens and legal aliens by "giving" jobs those lawfully here should have to others, cheat our government out of tax payments and social security payments, promote identity theft, and bring great pain to our society as a whole. These employers are the bottom scum of our society as much as any drug dealer. They are scum even when they are large corporations, or I should say especially when they are large corporations.

    This isn't about a libertarian free-market theology, unless in your concept of such the borders should be open between all countries and people should be free to migrate across the globe as they wish.
    Obviously few in any of the developed countries think that is a good idea. To allow that would be like you letting anyone off the street sleep in your house and eat at your table.
    Clearly we have a great philosophical difference. Who is cheating whom?
    At the other end of the spectrum, the bulk of this thread's arguments seem to rest on the false premise that jobs are a value that has a static quantity, therefore meaning one persons gain is another persons loss. This is likened to the animal kingdom, of which we are not, so it is bold-faced false. Wealth and jobs are CREATED. There is no static quantity for one to take from another. Just as so, none of us has a right to a job.

    In reality, cheap labor creates more production which usually leads to the need for more jobs. Then other businesses supply said company with their needs, but to meet that demand, they in turn have to hire even more themselves to be able to meet the higher demand for supplies.

    As to the open borders comment, open borders have nothing to do with allowing some unknown person to enter your private property/residence at will. There is a huge difference between privately owned property and open land, which the collective(government) falsely claims ownership of.

    oh and don't lump me in with Libertarians. They want anarchy. I don't.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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  15. #30
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    Productivity calculations?

    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post

    In reality, cheap labor creates more production which usually leads to the need for more jobs. .
    Cheap labor increases the calculated productivity, but not productivity itself. The increase comes about as follows:

    X amount of widgets produced by y dollars of labor = "productivity"

    Of course, productivity is really the production of the widgets and is divorced from the labor cost.

    More voodoo economics left over from the Reagan years. All used to beat down the working guy, till we get to today's mess.

    We have given the store away and the house, and the yard by adhering to the tenets of voodoo economics.

    I suppose Pack you will be just thrilled when illegals get hired to d your work. It could easily happen. There are plenty of network engineers, computer programmers, systems analysts and the like being produced in other countries and some find their way here both legally and illegally.

    Pack wrote:" In reality, cheap labor creates more production which usually leads to the need for more jobs. "

    First, following that logic, we should throw open our gates to millions of folks from India and Bangladesh.

    Second, if our own folks can't afford the things produced because they don't have jobs (today's world) then there will be no production.

    E.g., I know a man who worked for a company that makes heavy industrial production machinery. He was there for 10 years. Today there is no demand for building supplies; hence no demand for the machines his company manufactured, and no demand for his services. We beat wages down so far we shot our economy in both knees.

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