NEED HELP with a Bully situation please.

[Eagleks]

Ok, well he just got home.

Now here's the part that pissed me off royally:
after all was said and done and the boys supposedly made up, the administrator tells my son if someone hits you and you hit them back, that is NOT SELF-DEFENSE. Self defense is RUNNING AWAY.
Oh, really? So when someone is holding you down and beating you and you can't run away, what then?

My son had an encounter with 4 well known bullies in a shop class where they took some tools to his car & then had him cornered. 4 against 1. He tried to walk past them and the fight was on. He won the fight. They suspended him. I argued self-defense, which it was according to every witness including the teacher. I brought them a copy of the state law on self-defense, then called the Police and made sure charges were filed against all 4 of them. Went to the Superintendent and he investigated it as well. He brought my son back ... patted him on the back for a "good job", and suspended all of them.

The school admin's comment, "YOU ruined that kids (the head idiot) chance of getting into the Army now". My response, "NO .... HE ruined his chances of getting in the Army, and he learned a lesson ya'all should have taught him a long time ago.... personal responsiblity for HIS actions".

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Patti]

Ok, well he just got home.

They both met with an admin at the school today, First separately, then together. Apparently nobody is getting suspended and the kid doesn't actually have access to a firearm, he was all talk. (Fortunately for everyone, they didn't ask MY kid, as there are 2 firearms at home at the moment, and he goes shooting about once every week or two, so there's your "access.") They shook hands and made up. Nobody is moving classes and nobody said anything to the bus driver.

*I* was supposed to get a phone call about all of this, but as of right now, it still hasn't happened.

H is freaking out. Now that all is supposedly resolved, he doesn't want to file a report. So I emailed the Captain again. It's all documented on email at this point. IF THIS HAPPENS AGAIN, we will go full-throttle any legal way we can. That means filing the report, calling DSS or whatever, and squawking at everyone from the Superintendent to the janitor.

I can't say I'm thoroughly satisfied, but I know both boys will have a very close eye kept on them now, and the seem to have had the severity of bullying/making threats/weapons talk impressed upon them both. They are scared.

So for now, I guess we're waiting and watching, with everyone in charge aware and watching as well.




Now here's the part that pissed me off royally:
after all was said and done and the boys supposedly made up, the administrator tells my son if someone hits you and you hit them back, that is NOT SELF-DEFENSE. Self defense is RUNNING AWAY.
Oh, really? So when someone is holding you down and beating you and you can't run away, what then?

Oh, the joys of motherhood.

I feel for you, Bunny.

The first time my son got picked on was when he was in 5th grade. The incident happened at recess. Everything turned out good because my cousin was the recess monitor and all 3 of her boys were state wrestling champs. She put the piece of crap bully in a headlock. When I showed up at school, the piece of crap was sitting on a bench IN HANDCUFFS.

It was great.

The piece of crap kid eventually was sent away to juvie jail.

I hate to tell you, but it's just the beginning. There's going to be a lot of ups and downs. How you handle the situations will make a world of difference in molding your son's character. We are our kids number one teacher. They watch us and they learn from us.

You did good on this one.

We can't always be there to protect and defend our kids. They have to learn to stand on their own 2 feet.

I've always told my kids to "Do the right thing...and you can't go wrong." Some day they will write that on my tombstone, I'm sure.

Being a parent is tricky business.

[IronMike]

Maybe the animals that raised me were right after all "swift and blinding violence is the only answer"
Im just saying, its hard to be a bully with a bloody snot locker.

[packinnova]

Maybe the animals that raised me were right after all "swift and blinding violence is the only answer"
Im just saying, its hard to be a bully with a bloody snot locker.

I know I'm going against the grain with a lot of the members here, but I have to agree. Growing up in Baltimore in through the 80's and 90's and then moving to the virginia suburbs in a notably hispanic gang run area, I've been in my fair share of scraps. I had one such situation with a fellow in HS that would just never back off. Damn fool just had it in for me(new guy in school) and the worst part was that when he started, his friends would back him up, so I was never just one on one with him. It was always against him and all his friends. The only thing that worked in the end was total full on engagement(thankful for parents who instilled the flight first, but if you have to fight, there's no such thing as dirty concept early on). Some folks, that's all they will understand. They've most likely either never heard the word NO in their life with any repercussions, or they've been violently abused over the course of their life and that's all they know. Most times it seems that's all that works partly because of that history.

[ErikGr7]

You do realize that your child might try to hide
how bad it really is. Maybe the bully is terrorizing
your child daily? I would say something.

[edr9x23super]

Bunny, I would tell your son what YOUR version of self defense means, and tell him to stick to it, no matter what the principal says. If he is in fact, picked on again then you have a documented case of incidents and/or threats and the administrations' lack of ability to resolve the situation should make for a wonderful controversy for school officials....

[paramedic70002]

OK I've reconsidered. Teach your child some dirty incapacitating strikes. Knuckle punch to throat, pull head into knee, kick to groin. 1-2-3. If there is another challenge, they agree to meet OFF SCHOOL PROPERTY to fight. Have your kid bring mean friends for backup.

A good butt whipping might do the trick.

[UnklFungus]

Or, this incident may never repeat itself. So much violence associated with this thread.

I agree with self defense, but man...

[AutoFan]

I had similar problems with my son in middle school (AKA Jr High). My experience is the school has a file on the bad kid and knows all about him, as he's done this in the past to others (or will in the future). They don't really want to do anything about him, as that involves a lot of messy work on their part. So don't expect much to be done (if any at all) unless you follow up unmercifully. The whole "Zero Tolerance" thing is just BS. Tell your son how to defend himself (no permanent injuries) and when (when he feels physically threatened) and support him when it is justified. He will probably get in trouble over it (yeah I know it is not fair, but see my earlier statement about Zero Tolerance), but remind him that the right thing to do is never easy. Usually schools will back down on punishing the person defending themselves when a big enough stink is made. And standing up to bullies is usually the only way to get them to back off, in my experience. The threat by the bully of getting a gun is serious and should be reported.

[Huzar]

OK I've reconsidered. Teach your child some dirty incapacitating strikes. Knuckle punch to throat, pull head into knee, kick to groin. 1-2-3. If there is another challenge, they agree to meet OFF SCHOOL PROPERTY to fight. Have your kid bring mean friends for backup.

A good butt whipping might do the trick.

Careful: some of those might be deadly and have DIRE consequences if used as defensively between two kids.

[IronMike]

Or, this incident may never repeat itself. So much violence associated with this thread.

I agree with self defense, but man...

violence has kept me alive for a very long time,knowing when to use it is important,knowing how to employ it with brutal effect is an art.

[Vtxdpm]

I read a similar thread a while back on an 'unarmed' self-defense board and it was initially handled in a similar way as you recently described. The school admin 'talked' to everyone involved and agreed to keep an eye on things... except it wasn't over and the bullying continued. No one seemed to notice.

Soon after the crap started up again, the good kid was warned by a teacher that if he fought back HE would be in trouble. The next day, the good kid's mom showed up in the school office with her attorney present. He had some papers for the above mentioned teacher and principle to sign stating that since the good kid was warned that he wasn't allowed to protect himself, that they (teacher & principle) hereby accept full financial responsibility for any physical and/or emotional injuries the good kid may experience, etc... (including the 'emotional injury' component is key because it basically provides for almost limitless damages to be assessed).

Of course, the principle wouldn't sign anything, but he also got the message. The bully was watched like a hawk - and was expelled within a week for harassing yet another student.

Overkill? Maybe, but it took care of the situation immediately compared to the school's initial approach which did nothing. And it prevented the situation from dragging on and on.

Good luck with everything.

[Eagleks]

As to .... if you hit someone you would be punished, even if it's self-defense..

They attempted to use that related to my son, when it was 4 of them and 1 of him . I brought them a copy of the State Self-defense laws... and suggested that if they didn't follow that.... we'ld let the Judge decided the punitive damages to award against the school. As stated above, getting charges filed against the 4 for assault & battery, also helped the debate.

I told the Principal, Vice-Principal & later the Superintendent when they gave me flak about it (Superintendent agreed with me on his right to defend himself).... that my instructions to him was "to defend himself first", and we'ld deal with the school afterwards. As I said to them, I would rather he not be in a hospital and miss a few days of school......

I also asked them, you mean if I jump up and start hitting you with my bare fists or a good steel bar ..... you are going to just stand there ? I wouldn't.

[InspectorGadget]

I read a similar thread a while back on an 'unarmed' self-defense board and it was initially handled in a similar way as you recently described. The school admin 'talked' to everyone involved and agreed to keep an eye on things... except it wasn't over and the bullying continued. No one seemed to notice.

Soon after the crap started up again, the good kid was warned by a teacher that if he fought back HE would be in trouble. The next day, the good kid's mom showed up in the school office with her attorney present. He had some papers for the above mentioned teacher and principle to sign stating that since the good kid was warned that he wasn't allowed to protect himself, that they (teacher & principle) hereby accept full financial responsibility for any physical and/or emotional injuries the good kid may experience, etc... (including the 'emotional injury' component is key because it basically provides for almost limitless damages to be assessed).

Of course, the principle wouldn't sign anything, but he also got the message. The bully was watched like a hawk - and was expelled within a week for harassing yet another student.

Overkill? Maybe, but it took care of the situation immediately compared to the school's initial approach which did nothing. And it prevented the situation from dragging on and on.

Good luck with everything.

+1

Sorry to hear this Bunny, Just saw the thread. In general without incentive the school will just try to sweep it under the rug, and the bullying will go on with the victim afraid of the schools reaction if he has to defend himself as long as the Bully does not make it THEIR(The Schools) problem. Look at how the school really acts, if they do not solve the problem and just drive it below the radar, it is time for a new school.

It sounds like you already have a solid plan with Bunny Jr. I wished that my parents would have enrolled me in martial arts as a kid and it would have made my life easier. I had to wait until I was old enough to seek out the training for myself.

I am planning on having kids one day but do not plan on public schools(Indoctrination), Private school or home schooling depending on who the future Ms Gadget is.

[Ghuqu2]

You might encourage him to find a different tactic instead of the fist fight. As an Army brat we move a lot (went to 7 different grade schools). Military brats learn to make friends fast and to roll w/ the punches. When my father retired I went to a large public high school, very Clique oriented, many of them went to kindergarten together. The bullies group decided I needed a beat down to show me where I landed in the pecking order. I couldn't take 6 kids on at once so I did something crazy. I saw a large spider near me grabbed it and ate it. Two of them about puked, and the rest made a large opening for me to walk away. I was known as the spider man for the next few months, but never had to deal with them again.
I'm not suggesting H starts eating bugs but doing something outrageous changes the situation and could end it in one fell swoop.