that said, my advice is to react "quickly and with overwhelming force" if this starts again. remember the number one rule in a fight, WIN!
This is a discussion on NEED HELP with a Bully situation please. within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by IronMike Maybe the animals that raised me were right after all "swift and blinding violence is the only answer" Im just saying, ...
that said, my advice is to react "quickly and with overwhelming force" if this starts again. remember the number one rule in a fight, WIN!
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The fact that the school knows your child reported on the other child, and now that other child is attacking your child, shows the school is not providing a safe environment. Forget their stupid "policies", they have a legal requirement. Now I'm not saying for you to go all out, but keep this in mind as things progress.
I just reduced the size of this post, as I was going to provide a detailed personal experience. I don't know who might come upon this thread, and sometimes let sleeping dogs sleep.
I'll just share, I was in a situation in HS where this type of policy came up, long story short, I fought back, let them know if they suspended me I was going to walk out of their office and call the police because they were required to provide a safe environment. Again, keeping it short, my mother was contacted, she said she would drive me to the police station herself if I wanted. I went to class, not punished, the aggressor was dealt with, and never bothered me again. IMHO, if I would have just took hits from the aggressor or let the school hit me with the policy, the bullying would have never end.
I don't know how it will turn out for you, but if I was a parent, if they threatened my child with a policy, and your child is in the right (even if he said a few things he should not have, after all, he is just defending himself as best he can at a child's level), at some point remind the school that legal responsibilities trump school policy.
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I've waited a while to respond. Quite a variety of suggestions from beginning to end...I've been involved in many of these episodes from both the parent's side and the school admin side.
I have always taken a parent's concern of a 'bullying situation' very seriously. I understood the helplessness a parent felt in such situations.
I always appreciated a parental contact for several reasons...it allowed me to try and de-esculate the situation and make a paper trail. I was very supportive of concerned parents and took threats made to children, by other children...as a serious action. It made no difference if it was fifth graders or seniors, because the effect on the victim is the same.
Many of today's administrators are liberal in their thinking...I was not.
My first course of action was to make contact with the 'actors' on both side of the situaton...I wanted the story from both. In many cases, my 'words' of what could/would happen with any further "bullying", usually put an end to the problem...on some ocassions, not. I always made it clear to the 'bully', that if he/she made additions threats after our meeting...it could become a complaint with our local PD or sheriff...I knew both very well. Additionally, there would be a substantial penalty added in terms of time off from school. I was not afraid to separate those who were truly creating fear for others...from the rest of the school population. I once had an aggressive 6th grader permanently expelled from our district. During the rest of the school year, the kid was expelled from two other districts...he was a slow learner.
Any administrator worth his/her salt, has the ability to end such situations quiclky...some won't take action until a crime has been committed.
Once a 'threat' of serious violence (weapons, 2 on 1, or other threats...I'll burn your house down) is made, a parent should first contact the school, not the other parent...lots of unstable people out there, and apples don't usually fall far from the tree.
I would let the principal know right up front that if the school's action doesn't end the threats, that a police report WILL be made. I found that local police departments understood that the effect of early intervention with a potential 'bully' might save them a paper trail when the kid is older, and sometimes that it may end up that way regardless of intervention...so be it. There were some incidents reported to me that required an immediate call to the authorities without any additonal meeting with the perps...not usually the case.
Schools cannot condone fighting, and usually an incident where both have used fists, both get some time off...maybe different amounts depending upon 'history'.
My own son was concerned with a bully in our high school. It was a minor incident and the principal had talked to both 'actors'. The talking did not stop the 'bully' from additional taunts and my son took direct action with his fists. He was given a few days off...he knew that would happen, but he said it was worth it...the bully learned a quick lesson in 'quiet does not necessarily mean weak'...he never bothered my son again.
I would advise any concerned parent to try and make contact with the school first...not all administrators are NEA branch offices......some can effectively deliver results.
I would not hesitate to make a police report if results are not immediate...would you not do the same for yourself?
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I'm surprised this was left up to parents at all.
My kid's school is ZERO tolerance for even mentioning violence...ESPECIALLY involving guns.
They'd have both been suspended and the initiator who threw a punch to the ribs would be in alternative school for the remainder of the year. Age is not a factor...7 or 17...doesn't matter.
I'd go to the front door of said bully's house with my son and explain to his parent what is happening.
If that didn't stop it I'd give my son a baseball bat to carry on the bus back and forth from school. When said bully started something again I would instruct my son to use the bat on said bully.
Situations just as this are why my son has studied Tae Kwon Do since he was 5 years old. Our child knows that if he goes looking for trouble he will have it really bad when he gets home but he knows that if he is merely defending himself he has nothing to fear.
I really hope your situation has a peaceful resolution.
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The Associated Press: AP Enterprise: Bullying laws give scant protection
AP Enterprise: Bullying laws give scant protection
By DIONNE WALKER (AP) – 20 hours ago
ATLANTA — Recent student suicides have parents and advocates complaining that anti-bullying laws enacted in nearly every state are not being enforced and do not go far enough to identify and rid schools of chronic tormentors.
Forty-four states expressly ban bullying, a legislative legacy of a rash of school shootings in the late '90s, yet few if any of those measures have identified children who excessively pick on their peers, an Associated Press review has found. And few offer any method for ensuring the policies are enforced, according to data compiled by the National Conference of State Legislatures.
The issue came to a head in April when 11-year-old Jaheem Herrera committed suicide at his Atlanta-area home after his parents say he was repeatedly tormented in school. District officials denied it, and an independent review found bullying wasn't a factor, a conclusion his family rejects.
Regardless, Georgia's law, among the toughest in the nation, still would not have applied: It only applies to students in grades six to 12. Herrera was a fifth-grader.
Georgia's law has one of the largest gaps between what it requires of districts and the tools it gives them for meeting those requirements. The state doesn't collect data specifically on bullying occurrences, despite legislation that promises to strip state funding from schools failing to take action after three instances involving a bully.
After Herrera's death, other parents came forward to say their children had been bullied and that school officials did nothing with the complaints, rendering the state's law useless.
"There is a systematic problem," said Mike Wilson, who said his 12-year-old daughter was bullied for two years in the same school district where Herrera died. "The lower level employees, the teachers, the principals, are trying to keep this information suppressed at the lowest possible level."
Only six states — Montana, Hawaii, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, North Dakota and South Dakota — and the District of Columbia lack specific laws targeting school bullying, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Most states require school districts to adopt open-ended policies to prohibit bullying and harassment.
While some direct state education officials to form model policies that school districts should mimic, they offer little to assure the policies are enforced; only a handful of states require specific data gathering meant to assure bullying is being monitored, for instance.
"The states themselves can't micromanage a school district — but they can say to a school district, 'Look, you have to have consequences,'" said Brenda High, whose Web site, Bully Police USA, tracks anti-bullying laws across the nation, and who advocates for strict repercussions for bullies. The Washington state-based advocate's son, Jared, was 13 when he committed suicide in 1998 after complaining of bullying.
"It needs to be written into the law that bullying has the same consequences as assault," she said. "The records and such need to be kept so that if the child is a chronic bully, they — after so many instances — will end up in an alternative school."
Alaska and Georgia have particularly specific statutes. Alaska's Department of Education and Early Development must compile annual data on bullying complaints and report it to the Legislature.
Georgia's 10-year-old law goes a step further. It specifies that three instances of bullying is grounds for transfer to an alternative school, away from the victim. School systems not in compliance forfeit state funding, according to the law.
Despite that record-keeping provision, the Georgia Department of Education cannot say whether any child has been transferred as a result of bullying because the department only tracks the number for broader offenses, including fighting and threats, spokesman Dana Tofig said.
"If the district is not enforcing its own bullying policy, and that's been happening repeatedly, the law says they can lose their state funding," Tofig said.
No school has lost funding under the law, according to the department.
Some school districts say they keep track of complaints, especially those involving a single child being bullied more than once, and that they address those cases. Without a legal obligation to report such data to state officials, however, it's unclear how any such statistics are used.
In 2007, nearly a third of students ages 12 to 18 reported having been bullied during the school year, according to data on more than 55 million students compiled annually by the National Center for Education Statistics. That's up from as few as 1 in 10 students in the '90s, though bullying experts point out the rising numbers may reflect more reports of bullying, not necessarily more incidents.
Many children reported teasing, spreading rumors and threats, all harder to spot and manage, school leaders say.
"One of the questions is how do you quantify bullying? It could even be as simple as a rolling of the eyes," said Dale Davis, a spokesman for schools in DeKalb County, Ga., where Herrera committed suicide.
District officials have said since soon after the boy's death that there was no evidence that Herrera was bullied, and that outside factors including the death of a close relative influenced him to take his life.
Herrera's death in mid-April came barely two weeks after Sirdeaner Walker found her son Carl hanged in her Springfield, Mass., home. The 11-year-old had complained of teasing almost immediately after arriving at his new charter school, she said.
Parents in Illinois likewise pointed to bullies after three suicides there in February: a 10-year-old boy hanged himself in a restroom stall in a suburban Chicago school, an 11-year-old boy was found dead in Chatham, south of Springfield, and a father found his 11-year-old daughter hanged in a closet of their Chicago home.
Dr. Diahann Meekins Moore, associate director for psychiatric services at the Illinois Department of Children & Family Services, cautioned that it's unclear whether bullying could be considered a primary cause in those deaths or in any suicide.
All the same, every suicide with a hint of bullying, every school rampage involving a shooter who claims to have been bullied renews the debate over whether anyone can curb what most consider a harsh and inevitable part of childhood, and if so, who bears that responsibility.
"A lot of this has to be handled in the home," said Peter Daboul, chair of the board of trustees at New Leadership, the Massachusetts school where her son was a 6th grader.
Teachers there will receive training on spotting childhood depression and bullying, he said, "but you also have the family unit where these kids are hopefully taught the difference between right and wrong."
Sirdeaner Walker said reminding a child that they're loved at home is less effective when they're being teased in the classroom.
"I can say that all the time," Walker said. "But again, I have to send my child back to the school."
I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.
I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.
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Bunny, I'm glad that it was discussed at school and hopefully came to a resolution.
I also agree with others on your son defending himself.
Retsup's post was good too.
My son will learn how to defend himself and if school wishes to take action against him for defending himself I will bring the legal side of things into play also.
Palm strikes to nose are quick, easy and effective.
I was always taller than everyone in school, and I was skinny. I had people pick on me. One day a group of three began messing with me, chased me all over the playground trying to kick and hit me. I took a kick and slowed down my running and a second one came and tried to kick so I punched him square in the nose and dropped him. They all ran away. Didn't mess with me anymore. No school official saw it, but I had my parent's blessing and encouragement for junk like this.
Had another one in 6th grade classroom that went as far as pushing my hand into a female classmate's chest. I knocked him over a desk and the substitute teacher we had that day sent us to office, got a lecture but he never messed with me again.
Be vigilant, encourage your child to use SD skills as a last resort.
Bunny.....your son did not attack first on the bus.....that was done with this bully put his hands in your son's face....thats his personal space and he had every right to knock his hand away.
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If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?
Schools see it as a 'discipline ' problem , rather than a legal one and don't want the law involved in their affairs.
That separation of law & school policy ended one day here years ago, when a troubled bully that they had done nothing about .... took some guns from home and showed up. He killed the Principle, wounded several other people, and since he was a juvenile... sent only about 4 yrs in a juvenile facility.
Avoidance, is not a good option. Schools hoping it will all just magically go away, doesn't work.
I'm not sure if this thread began before or after the incident where the kid gets beaten on schoolbus. But I saw that video, and it was discussed on talk radio a few times yesterday and today. Kid did absolutely NOTHING to try and defend himself. It's all on tape.
In fact, I'm gonna stop typing about it now because it get me too fired up just thinking about it.