Gas Prices and what we can realistically do - Page 2

Gas Prices and what we can realistically do

This is a discussion on Gas Prices and what we can realistically do within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by AutoFan By the by, diesel fuel, whether bio or petro based, will gel in cold weather unless you put in additives (alcohol, ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoFan

    By the by, diesel fuel, whether bio or petro based, will gel in cold weather unless you put in additives (alcohol, I think?), and those only work down to a certain temperature. Which you will get down to in the Midwest.
    Yes, I am aware of this. The newer petro diesel fuels don't have much of a problem with this, as there is additive in the pumps during the winter months, especially up here. The engines have come a long way in the last 10 years. My uncle has a ('03-04ish) Ford F350 Powerstroke and never had a problem. Doesn't add anything to the fuel either. Got down to the teens in NE Wisconsin this last winter, he never gelled up at all. He has never owned a gasoline vehicle, only diesel.

    BioD will gel at 35 or so IIRC. Still, it only gets that cold up here maybe 4-5 months out of the year. If I run BioD in my vehicle (when I get it) during the warm months and petro D in the winter, the I will still be ahead by the fuel savings from BioD. My plan is to keep my Blazer as a winter beater and get a VW diesel and run it on BioD. That way I will save on fuel during the warm season and run gasoline with my Blazer (4x4) in the winter. Seems like a better plan than spending $50K on a GMC 3/4 ton w/ Duramax. Payments will be a lot less.

    Here's the system I am going to get when I get my diesel: http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/pr...ister_plus.asp
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregarat
    Im soon going to sell my 95 GMC Jimmy, and buy one of thoughs little moped/scooter things. They get around 80 mi pr gallon, and are a simple 2 stroke engine that I can repair myself.
    If I need to travel out of town, I can easly find a ride. There are no hills and driving 45mph in the winter isnt so bad around these parts. These things are driven by alot of people around here, not just females and guys that are "funny"... if ya catch my drift.

    I could start my own little biker gang of geeks. Then ride to Datona for bike week, and chalenge the Hells Angles to a debate! Or I might just buy a real bike.

    Get a real bike. :) I ride through the winter unless there's snow on the roads because that's totally unsafe. Yeah, I might be crazy, but 5.1 gallons of gas lasts me 3 weeks going back and forth to work. I can get groceries on it (backpack and saddlebags) and do pretty much whatever. It might not be as convenient, but I get 42mpg city and 50ish on the highway, so it makes up for it. That and riding a motorcycle is the best therapy in the world.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Exclamation Black Gold Stranglehold!

    Quote Originally Posted by freakshow10mm
    Diesel engines were designed to run on vegie oil, not petroleum diesel. This is where the oil companies screw you dry by selling you something your vehicle isn't designed for.

    Same thing with the octane rating. You wouldn't believe the number of morons who run premium in their cars when they don't have to, claiming they get all this cool stuff. Does your engine knock or ping when you run 87 octane? No. Then use 87 octane.

    With Bush and Cheney in office, they are laughing all the way to the bank. Their oil buddies are laughing at us too. They will wait until it gets way out of hand to where there is a severe drop in sales due to people not being able to afford it. Then and only then will the government do something about it. Watch gas get to $7-8 a gallon and then they will step in, unless someone is elected that doesnt' have oil interest or investments (hopefully not Clinton).
    Look, I feel your pain, but you're making some false assumptions. It's true that the ORIGINAL design for the Diesel engine (oddly enough, created by a man named Diesel) were for pure veggie oil, and for use in poor inner city neighborhoods to generate electricity. However modern diesel engines used in vehicles today suffer from a need for purity that is not present in the veggie oil solution. I know this because about a year ago, I was all caught up in the same ideas. So motivated was I that I e-mailed my friend, Jeb Bush (yes THAT Bush) and asked him to check into this possibility. He had an engineer contact me and explain why it was not viable for a fleet of state vehicles. Not even for a local municipality. For the individual user, there are problems of purity, filtering and as mentioned before cold weather difficulties. The Governor did state that he was putting bio-diesel pumps into the major airports in the state as a test study. That made sense, controlled closed environment, different types of diesel vehicles (baggage carts, etc). Right now, there are just two biodiesel stations in my county (Miami-Dade). The fuel cost for either one is about $1.50 a gallon.

    IF I could afford to go to a super-diesel-vehicle, this is what I'd pick http://www.earthroamer.com/main_truck/vehicles.html OR this for a slightly smaller and less expensive although MORE off road capable vehicle: http://www.sportsmobile.com/4_4x4sports.html If I win the lottery (currently up to 82 MILLION here in Florida) I'd no doubt get my wife a Land Rover LR# and for myself, the Sportsmobile. Maybe keep an Earth Roamer at the new place in north carolina where I'll be moving to build one of these homes: http://www.formworksbuilding.com To live out the rest of our days in blissful peace and happiness. LOL

    But if you think that ANY politician is in cahoots with BIG OIL for personal gain, especially Bush or Cheny, you'd be wrong. Although not because they're not capable of such evil, they're men and as such they are inherently and intrinsically susceptible to evil. Gee. Big Surprise. Well, so am I. I'm just a poor sinner saved by grace.

    Actually, I think the driving force behind BIG OIL is the same driving force that has been at the root of all the evil that has befallen this country since 1775: The bankers, then the FED and they're both still nothing but lackeys to a much larger cabal....

    Since my personal supply of tinfoil is running low, you'll have to draw your own conclusions OR read this book: The Creature From Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin. That book will spin together all the angles, from financial and economic, to historical to political to sociological. As a history teacher, my favorite topic to do some relaxing reading is...History! Lemme tell you, there is no such thing as accidental history!

    If you think that oil supply is the culprit, think again. Part of the problem is that BIG OIL has been happy to cave into the enviromental whacko's demand for a moratorium on building any new refinieries! They knew that eventually demand would outstrip their ability to refine and drive up prices. This has happened. The crude oil is available, capacity to refine is not.

    If you think that a dwindling supply of fossil fuels is the culprit, think again. Oil doesn't come from Dinosaurs! Read THIS book: BLACK GOLD STRANGLEHOLD by Jerome R. Corsi Ph.d and Craig R. Smith (CEO of Swiss America Trading Corp) It's all about the myth of scarcity and the politics of oil. Taken together with the Griffin book, your eyes will be opened. Next, it'll scare the crap outta you. It sure has me! To the degree that my wife and I are beginning to prepare now and we're still not sure if we have enough time left before it all goes to Hell...literally. If you read NO other books this year, read "Creature" and "Stranglehold." Both can be had on amazon or at http://www.wnd.com under shopnet.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    The fuel cost for either one is about $1.50 a gallon.
    Exactly. And this is which refining by a company (overhead). If you were to go and collect the used oil, bring it home, process it and you will have control over every step including removal of impurities, it would cost you about half of that figure.

    There is a guy here in town that makes his own. He's been running biodiesel for years and never any problems. You might have to change fuel line to synthetic as over time biodiesel will break down the rubber lines in most vehicles today. That is the beauty of a diesel engine. They can run on a different assortment of fuels without mods, whereas the gasoline engine can only run on gasoline. Diesels can run on propane, biodiesel, veggie oil, NOx, pretty much any combustable vapor. Can't be said for gasoline engines.

    There is a guy that was in the paper a few months back that runs his 198x VW diesel truck on straight veggie oil.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array .45acp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom357
    If you've got the bucks, the Toyota hybrids are among the best out there.
    Toyota Prius, base model, brand new, still nicely equipped with ABS, CD player, A/C, etc. 22,000, not bad for a new car.

    We have 2 of the high end package Prius. First one for my wife, we paid 28k. Second one for myself, also the high end package, only paid 23k. Dealer gave us discounts inc for buying 2 within a week, well worth it.
    I have nothing to do with the company but if you're in PA then look up Savage Toyota and ask for Doug Murphy if you're in the market for a Hybrid. He'll get you financed and give you the best deal.

    To prove no connection to the Co. or salesman, don't even mention my name.
    I'm just in it to see us all save money, help the environment and screw OPEC and Big Oil

    Sorry, hope this language is acceptable, just one of those things I believe in very strongly.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array Rugerman's Avatar
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    I have the diesel Jetta in CA and am getting consitantly 50 mpg on the highway, commuting. The long run costs of the hybrids is going to make them not efficient enough.
    George Washington: "A free people ought to be armed."

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugerman
    I have the diesel Jetta

    You rock!!
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  8. #23
    New Member Array vorlons's Avatar
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    Diesels really are great.

    Quote Originally Posted by freakshow10mm
    BioD will gel at 35 or so IIRC. Still, it only gets that cold up here maybe 4-5 months out of the year. If I run BioD in my vehicle (when I get it) during the warm months and petro D in the winter, the I will still be ahead by the fuel savings from BioD. My plan is to keep my Blazer as a winter beater and get a VW diesel and run it on BioD. That way I will save on fuel during the warm season and run gasoline with my Blazer (4x4) in the winter. Seems like a better plan than spending $50K on a GMC 3/4 ton w/ Duramax. Payments will be a lot less.

    Here's the system I am going to get when I get my diesel: http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/pr...ister_plus.asp
    I own a 2001 Jetta TDI Diesel. Pure 100% biodiesel does gel up around freezing, that's why in the winter you want to run B20 (20% biodiesel / 80% dino-diesel). In really cold climates, B5.

    I live in MA and it can get cold here in the winter. I have never had any issues with cold morning startup. I do put in 6oz of powerservice in every tank. Cheap stuff, about $12 at Wallyworld for 32oz and due to increasing Cetane number, it also increases milage and power. In a compression engine, higher cetane essentially advances the timing as fuel starts burning sooner in the powerstroke.

    I get my biodiesel from a local heating oil company that has a B20 and B100 pump to run their delivery trucks on. Even a 2% biodiesel blend greatly improves lubricity, all diesel fuel in MN is B2. Biodiesel is not just a renewable domestic fuel, it is also much better for diesel engines due to higher lubricity, cetane number, and reduces emissions.

    I have made some test batches of biodiesel and am almost finished putting together a reactor using a water heater. You can build a full setup for about $500, though it will not at all automated like the kit you found.

    And yes, the car does get great milage. My lifetime average is 48.8mpg that I calculate with every tank. This is with a 5 speed and 90% highway driving. Best tank was 51.7mpg, worst was 45mpg. Car was "tweaked" with bigger injectors and a performance program.

    As accelerator is a "drive by wire" system, drive normally and get great milage, use the power and have fun and milage will drop about 3mpg for the tank. My power is approx 150hp and 300lbs torque and that peaks between 1800 and 2000 rpm.

    http://www.tdiclub.com

    I will never buy another gasoline car.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Thanks for your input. I greatly appreciate it. I am at least a year away from even thinking about a different vehicle, realistically. Diesels are cool vehicles IMO.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  10. #25
    Member Array George Hill's Avatar
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    I'm wanting a Diesel motorcycle... a KLR-650 based unit with the high capacity fuel tank that the military uses.

    The Toyota is the best Hybrid? Maybe at the moment... just wait until BMW's "Turbo Steamer" comes out. Makes the Toyota look silly.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Hill
    I'm wanting a Diesel motorcycle... a KLR-650 based unit with the high capacity fuel tank that the military uses.

    The Toyota is the best Hybrid? Maybe at the moment... just wait until BMW's "Turbo Steamer" comes out. Makes the Toyota look silly.
    +1 on the Diesel Motorcycle. That would be some great mileage I'm sure.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array .45acp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Hill
    I'm wanting a Diesel motorcycle... a KLR-650 based unit with the high capacity fuel tank that the military uses.

    The Toyota is the best Hybrid? Maybe at the moment... just wait until BMW's "Turbo Steamer" comes out. Makes the Toyota look silly.
    Yep, just wait and wait and wait
    Toyota has hybrid (3rd gen) now.
    Oh, BTW-Bet you're not gonna get the Beemer loaded for under 30k.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Couple of guys have built diesel motorcycle engines. Decent mileage but they say the noise is unreal. The 60mpg on my cycle is enough to satisfy me.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, one more thing to take care of for your diesel systems. If the diesel sits in a tank long enough, be sure to put in the additive that keeps biological growths from happening. I'm assuming that since this is a problem with petro-diesel, it would happen with bio-diesel as well. The things one learns and then forgets for a while.

    As an aside, I knew an older gentlemen who was a diesel mech in Viet Nam, said he could get a diesel to run on just about any fluid that would burn, and had a 20KW DG hooked up to his house for outages. He had a bunch of big spotlights hooked up to it, said it would light up the whole neighborhood!

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array .45acp's Avatar
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    I would really like to see a diesel hybrid with lithium batteries and the option to plug it in for recharge also.

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