Gas Prices and what we can realistically do - Page 3

Gas Prices and what we can realistically do

This is a discussion on Gas Prices and what we can realistically do within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Wait till you match our prices $1.15 a litre, that would be $1.15x4= to one US Gal....

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  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    Wait till you match our prices $1.15 a litre, that would be $1.15x4= to one US Gal.


  2. #32
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    If you think that oil supply is the culprit, think again. Part of the problem is that BIG OIL has been happy to cave into the enviromental whacko's demand for a moratorium on building any new refinieries! They knew that eventually demand would outstrip their ability to refine and drive up prices. This has happened. The crude oil is available, capacity to refine is not.
    I agree totally with the refining comment above - the environmental, political, legal, and economic constraints on new refineries, as well as other petro chemical facilities (i.e. LNG stations) are huge. The costs of such facilities is overburdened by these "soft costs", with the result that refining margins must be high to provide the return on investment the companies expect and need in order to make additional investments.

    Crude oil is available now - but as it becomes more difficult to find and extract, it by definition will become more expensive. There are a lot of hydrocarbons in the ground, but they will ultimately deplete, and become more scarce and more expensive to explore for, develop, extract, deliver, and then refine. Oil is a natural resource, and the supply is finite - it's just a matter of where the last drop is produced in who's lifetime.

    The type of hydrocarbon is also an issue - the US has vast natural gas resources, they've just not been driven by the marketplace like oil (e.g. used in cars, etc.), likewise Canada has huge tar sand resources - but they're just not as economical as crude oil right now.

    The price of oil is not controlled by anyone other than the marketplace - it is truly a commodity. Just like wheat, aluminum, copper, corn, etc.

    Nobody grunched when crude oil was $11 a BBL in 1986, or $3 a BBL during federal price controls.

    The bottom line is that we grew up on an artificially cheap natural resource, have become spoiled by it, our businesses and governments failed to invest in mass trans systems that work efficiently in this country (excepting some metro areas), we're "overdependent" on energy, and we're going to go through some pain as global demand increases and drives up the cost.

    No great answers, but we're all potentially part of the problem, and part of the solution.

    I'll step down now...... ........and pull on my fire-retardent suit.....

  3. #33
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    Didn't the oil companies cry about all their problems after the hurricanes, and then post record profits? Something isn't right here!
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    Talk about something not being "right."

    Easy to blame evil, big-oil companies. Rotten scoundrels shouldn't be allowed to profit from their business, should they?

    In an article by Neil Boortz, the cost of crude (set by OPEC, not our big-oil businesses,) increased some 450% since 1997.

    So, you think it might be wrong for the cost of the finished product to go up?

    Well, he point's out that the price at the pump has only gone up about 165% over that same period.

    I'm one of those who didn't understand the difference between "profit" and "profit margin." So that made me an easy person to lead to whatever conclusion you wanted to, when talking money.

    Reading Neil Boortz's news letter has opened my eyes quite a bit.

    It's real simple, in some ways. The world-wide demand for oil has increased dramatically. That has driven the cost of the raw material way up. When that happens, the cost of the finished product goes way up, as well.

    Neil is a radio talk-show guy, the one who is behind the "Fair Tax" plan. Unless you are a died-in-the-wool Democrat, you'll likely find yourself agreeing with him on many subjects. He's not a Republican, he's a Libertarian.

    I keep forgetting his URL, but (I LOVE this!) just type www.vicioussob.com into your address bar. It will re-direct you to his web sit. (Just notice you can click on that link and get there.)

    He calls his radio show, "The Church of the Painful Truth."

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  5. #35
    Lead Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmike
    Talk about something not being "right."

    Easy to blame evil, big-oil companies. Rotten scoundrels shouldn't be allowed to profit from their business, should they?

    In an article by Neil Boortz, the cost of crude (set by OPEC, not our big-oil businesses,) increased some 450% since 1997.

    So, you think it might be wrong for the cost of the finished product to go up?
    No, not at all. I have no problem with companies making a profit. What I take exception to is the raising of prices based on rumor and speculation, the fact that they never go down when demand eases and supply goes up, and the fact that the companies are posting RECORD profits.

    I also don't have a problem with people getting a decent retirement, but do they need more than 10 average people can spend in their lifetime?

    I don't even like it when government sticks their nose in company fees and profits. The government did that to the power companies in Maryland a few years ago, freezing prices. Now the people in the State are looking at a 72% rate increase in July........ There are a whole bunch of lower class folks who are going to be hurting.

    Just my opinion.....
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    Rick,

    First, thanks for the thoughtful reply.

    I'm going to do something I seldom do, and back out of this thread. I have the utmost respect for all who post on CombatCarry and really enjoy "being here."

    But in the past, I've let certain subjects, mostly political, take on too much importance and over-shadow the reason I used those forums in the first place.

    Mind you, this my own, personal problem. It isn't anything anyone has said or done. In fact, I feel that the group here is the most friendly, tolerant bunch I've ever encountered.

    I just don't want to let my own shortcomings cause me a problem.

    With that, I'll step back and get out of the way. There's lots of other stuff I can talk about, and many things I can learn.

    Just chalk it up to a personal quirk of mine.

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  7. #37
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    Even though there are no short-term answers to our dependence on oil, this country tends to have two to four year attention spans. That said, we need to further develop our:

    • Natural gas resources - exploration, production, and delivery (e.g. LNG),
    • Coal - we have vast coal resources,
    • Alternative hydrocarbons (e.g. tar sands), and
    • Nuclear


    France and Japan, IIRC, are a long ways ahead of us in using nuclear - why can't we do this? Politics.

    This country needs to get off the dime - and start doing smart things not based on bad science and wacko fringe groups afraid of the "doomsday scenario"

  8. #38
    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    The only way to beat oil companies is to drive less or drive two wheel cycles.Bio diesel is more expensive if your not making it.
    Most of manufacters do not recommend using it in the last time
    I checked.I live in Maine and fuel gel when it get below zero and
    you don't treat it with conditioner which I do for about 12 weeks
    during the winter.Also the winter blend fuel is cut with kero and
    it hurts fuel economy.

  9. #39
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    Well I am reviewing two major projects right now in Northern British Columbia. One which is almost through the review stage is a LNG port to ship LNG into North America. The other is an oil terminal to ship the Tar sand oil from Alberta to China and the US west coast. Unsure if it will get through the process as it means VLCC (big, big tankers weaving their way through a tight fjord). Plus they also need supporting pipelines 460 km for the LNG and 1300km for the oil. Plus they are retrofitting a terminal at the same port to import condensate to pipe (small pipeline to be laid in the same Right of Way as the oil pipe) it to the terminal so they can mix it with the oil to get it to flow.

    To my understanding, the price in the news that they quote is always for Light Sweet Crude which is the best quality oil and only represents a small fraction of the oil supply. Also I understood that crude oil stocks in North America were fine or even at the point were they can’t store much more. It the refined products like gasoline that there is a shortage of.

  10. #40
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    We need energy diversification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stetson
    The only way to beat oil companies is to drive less or drive two wheel cycles.Bio diesel is more expensive if your not making it.
    Most of manufacters do not recommend using it in the last time
    I checked.I live in Maine and fuel gel when it get below zero and
    you don't treat it with conditioner which I do for about 12 weeks
    during the winter.Also the winter blend fuel is cut with kero and
    it hurts fuel economy.
    I live in MA and during the coldes't part of the winter I use B5 biodiesel (5%), otherwise it is B20 for most of winter, B50 for spring / fall and B100 for summer when I can. I both make my own and buy commercial biodiesel.

    The fact is, bio-fuels like biodiesel and ethanol are a short term stepping stone to the real solution. Fully electric cars that have plenty of power (once storage issues are solved) and get electron's from renewable sources and Fusion (not fission).

    Bio-diesel is a great way to diversify our energy sources, creates US jobs in farming / production, and is better for the environment even when blended with "dino-diesel" then gasoline or straight diesel. Diesel passenger cars get 30%-40% better fuel economy which also helps lessen the amount of oil that must be pumped / imported.

    New technology in using algea pools can increase amount of Biodiesel produced per acre by orders of magnitude. New technology in ethanol production uses microbes to break down cellulose (hay, fiber, hemp) into simple sugar. This is required as ethanol produced from corn is not cost competative to gasoline and requires a lot of energy.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array .45acp's Avatar
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    Just recently returned from a road trip, 6,000 miles (actually 6012), less than $250.00 in gas.
    Sure do love them Toyota Hybrids.

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