WTH is wrong with our judicial sytem?!!!

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Thread: WTH is wrong with our judicial sytem?!!!

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    WTH is wrong with our judicial sytem?!!!

    I need somewhere to vent and maybe even get a little advice.

    I will be posting this on other forums.

    This will probably be a long post so I apologize in advance. (it's of epic proportion)

    About 14 years ago one of my best friends (we're not talking good friend we are talking life long soul mate friend here) got involved with an(other) abusive man. I saw his true nature from the word go as did many others close to "Trisch". She however did not and once she had decided to have a relationship with him she devoted her entire being to making a life with him.

    Trisch had been abused by her father and had recently gotten out of her first marriage with another abuser. This was a trend that frightened me. What was the worst was that she could not see the pattern or pick out the abusive tell tales in the men in her life. She was in constant denial. As a devoted Catholic she placed her trust in God and believed that it could only get better for her. Her new husband wasted no time in alienating her friends and leading her to believe derisive vicious lies about things that were said about her behind her back. She began to distance herself from her core friends as was his goal. They had two girls by this time and I begged her to take the girls, leave him and come stay with my family. I had no solid proof that he was physically abusive but the emotional abuse was obvious. This was the last real contact that I had with Trisch. The abuser had planted the seeds and she took this as me attacking her husband and trying to break them up. She completely cut off contact with me shortly there after.

    4 years later: I found out that Trisch had finally left the father of her girls and was being hidden by her family. I was relieved and knew better than to try to make contact with her. If and when she was able she would let me know.

    5 more years...

    Trisch contacts us through my wife's "my space" and wants to get together. She has long realized that losing contact with us was Bill's ultimate goal but has just now gotten over the shame that she felt from letting it go this long.

    Trisch had dealt with the abuse as a "fact of life" that is what she had come to expect from men and did her best not exacerbate the situation by being a good submissive wife. Despite his abusiveness "Bill" was a talented welder/fabricator and with Trisch at the helm they had built a small fab/repair shop into a thriving business.

    Bill did become physically abusive and more and more emotionally demeaning. Trisch suffered a tragic knee injury that developed complications after surgery and has left her in constant pain and with a fairly major disability. She insists that Bill was not responsible for the accident (slipped on ice and crushed the patella in the fall) but I suspect that at the least, his neglect and abuse were the ultimate cause of the complications. Trisch finally decided to leave Bill with the children when he turned on the girls physically. She left with little, their clothing and as many important documents as she could safely smuggle out.

    Trisch filed for divorce and tried for sole custody of the children but was unable to convince the court that Bill was a danger to the girls. She did maintain custodial custody. When the girls later came forward about the physical abuse Bill lost his visitation rights pending a court ordered course of rehab (anger management class, counseling and such). He managed to get things postponed and put off until the statute off limitations ran out and then petitioned for the return of his visitation rights and sued for custody. He lost the custody battle but did maintain visitation rights. The court costs were upwards of $3,000.00 to Trisch. Bill claims that Trisch cost him the business and that he is only making $3-5K a year. He has been extremely delinquent in paying his child support and makes excuse after excuse to the court. Yet he still has money to pay lawyers to harass Trisch with litigation...

    In the meantime Trisch met and married "Mike" a man who, by all accounts, was devoted to her and the girls. Together they had a son(now 4 yrs. old) and were in the process of starting a 3rd party medical billing company (Trisch's line of work before Bill). Her new husband was everything that her first two were not. She had finally found a real man who would love and protect rather than intimidate and abuse. Mike took ill 2 years after their son was born and died of "complications related to an undiagnosed long term illness" in March, 2009. Their home mortgage was in Mike's name with Trisch having rights to survivorship. The mortgage company is pulling some serious crap with Trisch. She had made one payment 32 days late during Mike's illness and Duetsche bank filed for foreclosure when they were notified of his death. She hired a mortgage attorney and he evidently dropped the ball by not filing something in "a timely manner". More legal fees and another lawyer involved...

    This is really seeming to ramble but I don't know how to put it down in a more organized manner.

    After Mike died Bill started stepping up the BS. He had stopped physically abusing the girls under threat from the courts after a failed attempt to blame Mike for the injuries but it turns out that he has been threatening to kill them and Trisch if they did not tell the court that they want live with him even though the Judge ruled that they have no say until they are 16 yrs. old. He had tortured and killed pets in the past and used this a threat also. The girls now say that he has been making them write journals documenting Trisch's short comings as a mother and accusing her of abuse. The girls came forward with this and told the school officials and the Child Services case worker, who told them that there was nothing she could do as the Ohio courts did not label emotional abuse of a child as domestic violence. It turns out that Bill had threatened this same case worker's life and her supervisor would not let her press charges! Bill is now threatening to sue for custody again and to oppose any move of the family in court.

    I have finally lost what little faith I still had in our judicial system. The fact that an obviously abusive man can cause such problems for the mother and children and evade imprisonment even though he has been in contempt and making violent threats to individuals who are not even part of the "Family" makes me want to "burn down the establishment".

    Trisch has lost faith, period. She feels that she is being persecuted by God and is adrift in an emotional maelstrom that I am helpless to fight against. I will defend her and the children with my life if necessary, which I fear will be when Bill loses the next custody battle. He has become more and more mentally unstable if that is possible. But what can I do to help her realize that none of his actions are her fault? She truly believes that this is punishment for some wrong doing in her past.

    Well I guess that is enough to ruin everyone's day.
    I'm done now.
    I just needed to put this down to see if I could get my head wrapped around things a bit differently.

    If anyone has any first hand experience or any legal training and can shed some light on the preposterous BS that I am seeing here...?
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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    In the good old days a couple of real men would have taken "Bill" out behind the woodshed and seen to it that he had a proper lesson in manhood that his father should have given him.....

    But we are dealing in the today, so outside of him making some serious mistake with you around that could possibly result in his demise, that poor woman is in for nothing but trouble. She needs some serious counseling, and a protector. Unfortunately, those are in short supply nowadays.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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    Wow, no one should have to deal with misery such as she has been through. While I do not know of anyone that has had to deal with anything like that my I suggest you have her contact any organization that helps abused women, they may have legal contacts that can help her on a pro bono basis and counselors on staff to help with the continued emotional abuse. Best of luck to her.
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    This is not an isolated 'family affair'. Working in schools for so many years, I have personally seen this type of abuse, and lots of it far worse...yes, much worse.
    Most times we are only left to shake our heads in amazement at the ineptness of the courts, but that's life.
    There are so many sad stories of neglect, violence, and death. Usually, the courts only step in after someone has been abused beyond the potential for a complete recovery, or murdered...sad, sad state of affairs.
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    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    I feel sorry for the daughters. They have to pay the price for their mother's poor choices in life.

    You would think that since Trish's father was abusive, that she would choose not to marry an abusive man.

    But she does. And then she chooses to marry another abusive man.

    Jeepers.

    Until the 2nd husband commits a crime against the 2 girls, he will be able to have visitation rights.

    In a few years, the girls will be old enough to choose not to see their father. In the meanwhile, he is still their father.
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    I have nothing to add except my best wishes.
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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Well, gee.. yes I have seen such situations. I'll tell you what I told them : "keep away from this guy and do everything possible to protect yourself and your family".

    Get a court ordered evaluation of Bill... he will fail it.
    Have a "objective" counselor if possible (you have to agree with who), who can pull it out of the children that Bill has threatened to kill them and her. That is , if they won't tell the Police and Judge themselves. They can also be 'questioned' by Police and / or therapist as to why they wrote the 'journals' and if under duress and threats from Bill. Protection order on Bill.

    and take nothing for granted.

    I used to absolutely love putting away guys like Bill. Often they would slip up when prodded and begin threatening me as well (doing my job) and bingo... and amazing once someone gets locked up how many come out of the woodwork with a great willingness to suddenly testify..... once that threat is taken away.

    I wish her luck, as she's going to have a rough road for awhile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Well, gee.. yes I have seen such situations. I'll tell you what I told them : "keep away from this guy and do everything possible to protect yourself and your family".

    Get a court ordered evaluation of Bill... he will fail it.
    Have a "objective" counselor if possible (you have to agree with who), who can pull it out of the children that Bill has threatened to kill them and her. That is , if they won't tell the Police and Judge themselves. They can also be 'questioned' by Police and / or therapist as to why they wrote the 'journals' and if under duress and threats from Bill. Protection order on Bill.

    and take nothing for granted. ...



    I wish her luck, as she's going to have a rough road for awhile.
    I agree with all that has been said so far. However,
    Eagleks,
    The kids did come forward and tell the authorities about the threats and coercion only to be told that it is not a crime for their father to emotionally abuse them. Even when there was proven physical abuse the punishment was temporary and that slap on the wrist was actually bypassed due to the statute of limitations.

    We are looking into some better legal representation and trying to find any lame dog excuse to prosecute the ******* on any level.
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    Senior Member Array Rob P.'s Avatar
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    I read this thread when it was first posted. I did not reply until now because I wanted to think about everything before I posted.

    While I generally agree that our justice system is broken beyond redemption, that is not the real issue here.

    The real issue is that for years and years the people involved have been acting like the courts are the bad guy because they can't/won't "fix the problem."

    The "problem" isn't the courts. The "problem" is the people involved haven't figured out that THEY are the problem and that THEY keep perpetuating it. Everyone wants "what is MINE!" instead of resolving the issues permanently.

    There are solutions. However, everyone seems to universally agree that these very real solutions are unworkable because someone "loses." What people don't realize is that sometimes this is a better outcome for everyone involved even though it requires some major heartache.

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    I agree with Rob P 100%. I deal with issues like this day in and out. It isnt the courts or the governments job to sort out citizens messed up lives.

    While I do feel sorry for people like your friend, she needs to cut all ties to Bill.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmy40 View Post
    The kids did come forward and tell the authorities about the threats and coercion only to be told that it is not a crime for their father to emotionally abuse them. Even when there was proven physical abuse the punishment was temporary and that slap on the wrist was actually bypassed due to the statute of limitations.

    We are looking into some better legal representation and trying to find any lame dog excuse to prosecute the ******* on any level.
    Once "any" Judge decides anything.... you have a right to appeal his decision to a higher level and get it over-ruled. Don't hesitate to do it. Even if the statute of limitations rules out any real action, it doesn't prevent it from being used as evidence in a domestic court on custody and protection orders , in fact may serve quite well to help that case.

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    Senior Member Array CEW58's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    I can't help but wonder just how common such abuse actually is in our society.

    I grew up in a family of seven kids in a rural area outside a small Pennsylvania town. We didn't have a lot of money, but we always had decent clothes on our backs, a good roof over our heads, and parents that loved us and never abused us. They disciplined us when we needed it, but never, ever abused us. I grew up thinking that most of the kids I grew up with led similar lives.

    But about a year and a half ago I attended a class reunion - the first I ever attended since graduating in the mid seventies. As the night wore on my classmates, many of whom I hadn't seen in over 30 years began to talk about the "good ol' days" and I learned for the first time that for many of them "the good ol' days" weren't so good.

    Many of them told of being abused and molested by parents and other relatives. One told of how she hated going to stay with her grandparents during the summer because her grandfather would molest her then give her a quarter "for being a good girl". She knew that if she told her mother she'd be called a liar and get a severe beating.

    Other's told stories of being beaten and/or molested by drunk parents. One girl that I dated told me that she always wore long dresses to hide the marks her father left on her legs when he beat her. I always thought she wore them because she was modest or maybe because her mother wouldn't let her wear short dresses. Many of the girls went straight from abusive homes to abusive marriages.

    I sat there listening to all of this with my mouth open. I never dreamed that all of this abuse was going on back in the "good ol' days" of the 60's and 70's in small town America.

    I can't help wonder how much goes on now that is still being hid behind closed doors?
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    Our judical system isn't good at stopping a crime. Nor do I think that's what they are for. When the ex kills or maims her then they will step in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I agree with Rob P 100%. I deal with issues like this day in and out. It isnt the courts or the governments job to sort out citizens messed up lives.

    While I do feel sorry for people like your friend, she needs to cut all ties to Bill.
    By "cutting all ties with Bill" she would be in contempt and the children would removed from her custody and possibly placed with Bill. Bill has court ordered visitation rights. She has already been warned about not forcing the children to go for their weekend "trauma sessions". She will be prosecuted for denying Bill his visitations. Or she can live her life on the lamb and forget about ever having any quality of life...

    We (my wife and I) are trying to help and looking for alternatives for her but neither of us has much experience in dealing with the judicial system.
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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    @CEW - Abuse is much more common and has been for a very long time; it seems more prevalent because we live in the information age and more people are coming forward with their stories. My younger brother is a practicing psychiatrist and sees this all the time. He currently splits his time between suicidal and substance abuse patients, and he tells me that a whole bunch of these folks ended up there because of the abusive situations they were in as children.

    One common thread he did point out was the learned behaviors that all of these people exhibit - since they grew up in abusive environments, they treat this as normal behavior and carry it into their own personal lives and thus continue the cycle.

    As SIXTO said, the courts cannot stop this, the people involved must. Hence, my comments about the woodshed.......
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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