ID theft, forged prints and signatures? for LEs

This is a discussion on ID theft, forged prints and signatures? for LEs within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I was just reading a news story about a Chinese woman who had her fingerprints surgically altered to enter Japan illegally. Though that is extreme, ...

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Thread: ID theft, forged prints and signatures? for LEs

  1. #1
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    ID theft, forged prints and signatures? for LEs

    I was just reading a news story about a Chinese woman who had her fingerprints surgically altered to enter Japan illegally.

    Though that is extreme, I have been wondering about the extent (if any) of the following two types of potential ID theft.

    1) Some businesses have used and continue to use fingerprints for stuff like check cashing

    2) Some businesses (especially the credit card folks) collect digitized signatures.

    It seems that if someone could collect digitized fingerprints and digitized signatures they could potentially create new untraceable identities or more likely use these to create false documents with which to take over things like titles to cars and homes.

    My question--- I've actually not heard much in the papers about document forgery using stolen digitized identifiers. Is this a real problem in the real world or is it a non-issue.

    If it is a real problem, shouldn't there be some legislation requiring that the card companies and other businesses either not collect these types of materials or put a huge amount of effort into protecting the digital images?

    It seems there is potentially lots of room for lots of mischief. Any thoughts and comments?

    Added later-- lots of times I'm asked to sign something digitally, e.g., when picking up a prescription to indicate that I have received the item. Seldom is the actual text of the statement displayed. That signature could potentially get tied to a completely different document for a completely different purpose. Does anyone know of, or have heard of monkey business like that. (My wife gets upset with me when I make a minor fuss about these things and ask to only sign what I can see, or to sign a piece of paper instead of something digitally. Am I wrong?_

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    There is always a way to fool "protective measures", just like there will always be a better weapon to fight with.

    Its no different than the internet viruses and fixes that go around.

    For the most part they work, then eventually they become obsolete.

    It is because of this, that the universal ID is pushed as a end all, you know, the chip in the hand that guarantees you are who you say you are and it precisely because of this that it will happen at some time in the future.
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    They can chip something , but it ain't gonna be my hand. Sorry, I'll live in the woods before I accept any governmental mark on my body!

    I am not exactly religious, but there is no way I would ever agree to that.
    “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”

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    If it is ok to disarm legal citizens to reduce crime, then doesn't it stand to disband the military to prevent war?

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    Somewhere around here I have an "underground manual" on creating a new identity for yourself. This is a typewriter-typed, Xeroxed, and hand-stapled "book" that was printed in the middle 90's before 9/11. I got it from an insurance fraud investigator who collected stuff like this to help track down scammers... this was before the phrase "identity theft" came into existence, and before the massive databases we all reside in now.

    Pre-9/11, creating a complete new identity for yourself was surprisingly easy... this guide shows step by step how to get birth certificates, driver's licenses, passports, voter ID, green cards, marriage certificates, the whole show... but now with terrorism, Homeland Security, and the rise of identity theft crimes, it is obviously much harder to do, and the penalties are substantially greater.

    HotGuns is correct... they have just upped the technological know-how required to pull it off. But once you make a system fool-proof, you force the fools to get smarter...
    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"

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    re: Unk

    Quote Originally Posted by UnklFungus View Post
    They can chip something , but it ain't gonna be my hand. Sorry, I'll live in the woods before I accept any governmental mark on my body!

    I am not exactly religious, but there is no way I would ever agree to that.
    I've actually given this a great deal of "random" thought. The very idea grates on me and does go against not only the religious precept to not defile the body (tattoos as well I might add), but brings back the evil business of tattooing numbers on the hands of prisoners.

    Yet, in truth, I have had my doggy fixed up with a chip to protect her. Why not myself? I guess the big issue is the one of security of the security device and security of the data bases keeping the chip information. Nothing I've seen, read, or heard about our cyber-world gives me one tiny bit of confidence that such devices won't end up being yet another source of fraud.

    So, anyway, back to my question. Are digitized fingerprints and digitized signatures as collected by the business community a threat?
    Are there documented instances of document fraud happening this way--through the stealing of the stored digitized identifiers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    There is always a way to fool "protective measures", just like there will always be a better weapon to fight with.

    Its no different than the internet viruses and fixes that go around.

    For the most part they work, then eventually they become obsolete.

    It is because of this, that the universal ID is pushed as a end all, you know, the chip in the hand that guarantees you are who you say you are and it precisely because of this that it will happen at some time in the future.
    what a foolish concept. What prevents those of us who can, from just hacking the new universal id chip...just like all the bs about the passports not being readable...
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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    Senior Member Array PointnClick's Avatar
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    Hopyard sez...

    Yet, in truth, I have had my doggy fixed up with a chip to protect her. Why not myself?

    Here's a question for the DeeCee hive mind: Your 6 year old child is missing... 36 hours now... apparently never got on the school bus yesterday.



    Do you wish there was a chip in your kid...?
    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by PointnClick View Post
    Hopyard sez...




    Here's a question for the DeeCee hive mind: Your 6 year old child is missing... 36 hours now... apparently never got on the school bus yesterday.



    Do you wish there was a chip in your kid...?
    It would also help track escaped convicts.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. — Winston Churchill

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    Better yet, tattoo the word "Convict" on the forehead

    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    It would also help track escaped convicts.
    Tattoo the word "convict" on their forehead. That should solve the problem. I hear they like tattoos. Help them out a bit.

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    One more time; fraudulent documents from....

    Quote Originally Posted by PointnClick View Post
    Here's a question for the DeeCee hive mind: Your 6 year old child is missing... 36 hours now... apparently never got on the school bus yesterday.
    Do you wish there was a chip in your kid...?
    Will they look for the kid at the pound?

    Doubt it will help any. If the kid is gone 36 hours s/he is probably in more trouble than a chip can help. Maybe a pre-swallowed GPS transmitter?

    Anyway, all are missing the question I asked. Are the fingerprint and signature digitizing equipment now found all over the business world endangering us by leaving us open to the theft of our ID via the creation of fraudulent legal documents? E.g., are folks getting their homes or cars stolen with fraudulent titles having real looking signatures and even prints?

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    Is it a threat? No, not that I know of. BUT its only a matter of time.
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    Senior Member Array PointnClick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Anyway, all are missing the question I asked. Are the fingerprint and signature digitizing equipment now found all over the business world endangering us by leaving us open to the theft of our ID via the creation of fraudulent legal documents? E.g., are folks getting their homes or cars stolen with fraudulent titles having real looking signatures and even prints?
    I have not heard of such a case specifically, but I am sure it is not far off, if it hasn't happened already. Some legal documents get scanned and put online... there's another angle...
    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"

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