The violent nature of violence

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Thread: The violent nature of violence

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    The violent nature of violence

    Not sure where to put this, if anyplace, but it is something I think we all need to keep in mind. Mods move it if there is a better place for this message.

    We have a bunch of threads going elsewhere about various MA and knife techniques, and various "shoot/don't shoot" scenarios.

    What I think some of us, if not all of us, believe is that we will see it coming, react effectively, and somehow walk away with minimal harm.

    I want to tell a story of something I witnessed 40 + years ago that illustrates just how violent a confrontation can get, and how quickly it all can go down--so fast, that reaction time and ability to respond are questionable, or absent.

    Some folks are really just very very good when they decide to fight. In this instance I'm about to relate, I think it was the good guy, but who knows, and so here's the story.

    First, for those who are, or have been into SCUBA diving, the scene and incident happened in Grand Cayman, right near Georgetown Harbor, a few years before they even built the first hotel on 7 mile beach and before the late Bobby Sotto built (completed) his diving lodge on the other side of the island.

    So we were eating a light lunch and lounging in the bar, though probably I was drinking cola. Just diving buds relaxing.

    A man walked in and his entrance really went unnoticed to any of us. He walked up to the bartender, who was behind the bar, and said something to the bartender; I have no idea what.

    The bartender exploded: "You get the blank out of here I run a decent business."

    And in the time it took for him to utter those few words, he punched the man (across the bar) with a left jab, stepped from behind the bar and hit him again with a right cross. The man stumbled backward across some chairs and tables and then the bar tender kicked him back as he stumbled, and kicked him down a flight of stairs into the street, waving his fist at him yelling not to come back.

    The bartender then turned to the patrons and said in his thick English accent: "I'm a Christian man and I run a decent business. Don't want his kind coming around." And he then went back to his chores.

    In this case I suppose (cops were never called nor did they come) the good guy was the one who let the violence rip, but BGs are just as capable if not more so of "explosive" violence as was this bartender.

    Few, caught unaware of what was about to happen could respond or regain control of the fight in the 2-3 seconds the whole thing may have lasted. As a witness I scarcely knew what I had just seen and probably didn't even see some of it but got it figured out later when we all talked about what happened.

    We can run scenarios through our minds, train ourselves, etc., and carry, but if we are caught off guard ---as the man who approached the bartender was by someone who knows how to fight, we may not prevail or even realize what happened until picked up from the street.

    I don't know what happened to the man once out on the street. He looked like he might have been badly hurt, broken bones from the staircase and falling across a couple of tables, but we "witnesses" took the opportunity to slip out and go back about our business preparing for an afternoon dive.

    I still thank goodness that we didn't all get caught up in a post fight investigation and detained there as witnesses.

    I oftentimes think about that incident and how un-useful a gun would have been had I walked into someone's explosive rage unexpectedly.
    Probably the first opportunity the guy would have had to reach for his gun would have been at the bottom of the stairs. And by then he was in no shape to move.

    The bartender, had he not been "a Christian man" could have finished the guy off with a chair to the head. I'm pretty sure that even if the man had been armed, e.g., with a knife, he could not have used it to protect himself. He just wasn't expecting the bartender's explosive reaction.

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    People don't usually advertise what they are going to do, if they are determined to do it or have decided to. Don't expect a "build-up" beforehand or a warning. That's the reason for many to discuss NOT letting people get too close, as there is not time then to act or react.

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    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    When a persons sole purpose is to commit a violent act as opposed to a purse snatch for example there may be no warning. The best way for them to accomplish their goal is a sudden onslaught fists, bat, gun, knife or whatever be their weapon. It gives them immediate control and eliminates the the possibility of reprisal.

    That's why LEO's and martial arts teach working through the pain to gain control or to get away from the violent situation. It's a very real possibility when you have to act in a SD situation it WILL be under great distress.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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    Member Array ScubaDuba's Avatar
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    This guy's explosive violence met a violent end. Luckily for him, he lived...and we gave him a lil ole bandage for his trouble.
    Healthy children will not fear life, if their parents have integrity enough not to fear death.
    -TIME DEUM ET OPERARE IUSTITIAM--

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    We can run scenarios through our minds, train ourselves, etc., and carry, but if we are caught off guard ...
    Yeah, well. Can't control what you can't control.

    It's an important point, to recognize that all our preparations might yield unsatisfactory (or no) results. But that doesn't change the fact that improved preparations can help improve the odds, overall. Hence, we prepare the best we can, learn that at times simply getting out of there may be the best choice, etc. None of which means it'll matter one whit if the "wrong" situation comes 'round the bend. Ain't it the truth. C'est la vie.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Wow.

    Makes me wonder what in the word the guy said to the bartender to provoke that kind of a reaction.
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    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    And in the time it took for him to utter those few words, he punched the man (across the bar) with a left jab, stepped from behind the bar and hit him again with a right cross. The man stumbled backward across some chairs and tables and then the bar tender kicked him back as he stumbled, and kicked him down a flight of stairs into the street, waving his fist at him yelling not to come back.
    A man surprised is half beaten. Speed and violence of action complete the winning equation.

    Sounds like the bartender was in this guys OODA loop in a serious way.
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

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    Member Array SteveinNEPA's Avatar
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    Im a christian man etc? Possibly a question regarding a "street walker" if you will. Wont use certain other terms, but you get my drift. I knew someone who would give you a right cross like Ali if you asked him where you could get some. He was a catholic priest who used to box, but never dressed LIKE a priest (Think like father Mulchahy from that show MASH)

    ~Steve
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    re: Patti

    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    Wow.

    Makes me wonder what in the word the guy said to the bartender to provoke that kind of a reaction.
    I've no clue. I didn't even know there was going to be a problem until the first blow was struck simultaneously with the demand that the man leave the bar.

    I'd think those two had some history.

    If I had to guess, and it is only a guess, the guy wanted to pimp some girls to the divers. What I know for sure is that the bartender made a point of saying, "I'm a Christian man" and "I run a decent business." So, I'm putting two and two together to make a wild guess.

    In any case, the fellow sure got caught off guard and beaten in a way he'll long remember. I can still picture him falling backward across a table and being kicked down the stone stairs to the street.

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    Member Array ScubaDuba's Avatar
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    I think that's a reasonable guess as to what he was doing.
    Healthy children will not fear life, if their parents have integrity enough not to fear death.
    -TIME DEUM ET OPERARE IUSTITIAM--

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