Issue in Michigan

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Thread: Issue in Michigan

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Issue in Michigan

    This is the question
    Ok at the OC seminar the guy giving the presentation said that you may no OC in a Liquor Licensed store without a CPL. Then he listed stores like, Meijer, walmart, apple bee's etc. How does this law apply to me if I'm not 21? I don't have a CPL but can't buy liquor anyways. Does this mean I can't OC in Meijer or gas stations?



    This is the Response

    If you don't have a CPL you may NOT legally carry into any place (nor on the property) that is licensed by the Liquor Control Act.

    EVERY place in Michigan that sells Alcohol legally, is licensed.

    If you do not have a CPL, you may NOT carry into Meijer, Kroger, restaurants that sell alcohol, CVS, Walgreen's, or your local party store....etc
    .
    That said, things can change when you do have a CPL but there is no need for that info in this thread as all it would do is muddy the water when we should be VERY CLEAR on this subject.


    You cannot even be on the property of the Licensed establishment. So don't even leave the gun in the car... it has to stay home.

    So pretty much I can't even OC while 19 and under the age to buy alcohol in any place that is under the liquor act. Please someone help me and find a loop hole.
    Last edited by Spec; March 23rd, 2010 at 11:04 PM.
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  3. #2
    Member Array dougwg's Avatar
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    Yep that guy is right on the money, very smart guy right there.

    2 loopholes:
    Obtain permission
    Get older
    Become LE


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    Senior Member Array rmodel65's Avatar
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    doesnt Michigan honor all permits?? can you use an out of state permit? IIRC maine issues to 18 year olds......
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  5. #4
    Senior Member Array Super Trucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmodel65 View Post
    doesnt Michigan honor all permits?? can you use an out of state permit? IIRC maine issues to 18 year olds......
    Yes and No.
    Yes MI honors all states permits, but you must be a resident of that state for MI to honor it.

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    I'm no help other than wow that's more insane than our alcohol sold and consumed law in NC.
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  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    ...pretty much I can't even OC while 19 and under the age to buy alcohol in any place that is under the liquor act. Please someone help me and find a loop hole...
    Indirectly, your correct that MI is 21 & up when concerned about carry rights. From purchase to carry. The loop hole, depending how you look at it, is that you own a pistol (if I'm not mistaken, you can't purchase from a store) and that OC allows you to carry.

    Not stating I share this view, only your sort of right.

    It has never been challenged to my knowledge, but a few counties have even stated MI only allows for transportion (with out a CC permit), and it has been suggested this means to your home and the gun shop (maybe not even the range). I'm not stating this is the law, only that some of the anti LE / politicians in MI have made these statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    ...You cannot even be on the property of the Licensed establishment...
    In contrast to what I just stated, as I was only stating those that are looking to make a problem with transportation related issues, I doubt you can't have it in say a trunk of a car.

    Important that it be locked up, unloaded, and seperated from ammo. Pistol in trunk and ammo in glove box.

    I'm not 100 % on that, as you bring up an interesting point.

    It is the reason my wife got her CC permit. Some uneasiness with how the law reads, and just easier to have the permit even if you are headed to the range or traveling up north.

    She never CC much, due to job, and really just a choice she has made.
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    Member Array Jblack44's Avatar
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    You're learning how convoluted Mi's laws are about carrying! It's rediculous in regards to liquor licenses and selling vs. open container (bars) and OC/CC in these establishments. PFZ's are another stupid thing that law makers have established.
    don't give up! 21 will be here before you know it.....then 30, then 40, then..... :(

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    Member Array dougwg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    Indirectly, your correct that MI is 21 & up when concerned about carry rights. From purchase to carry. The loop hole, depending how you look at it, is that you own a pistol (if I'm not mistaken, you can't purchase from a store) and that OC allows you to carry.

    Not stating I share this view, only your sort of right.

    It has never been challenged to my knowledge, but a few counties have even stated MI only allows for transportion (with out a CC permit), and it has been suggested this means to your home and the gun shop (maybe not even the range). I'm not stating this is the law, only that some of the anti LE / politicians in MI have made these statements.



    In contrast to what I just stated, as I was only stating those that are looking to make a problem with transportation related issues, I doubt you can't have it in say a trunk of a car.

    Important that it be locked up, unloaded, and seperated from ammo. Pistol in trunk and ammo in glove box.

    I'm not 100 % on that, as you bring up an interesting point.

    It is the reason my wife got her CC permit. Some uneasiness with how the law reads, and just easier to have the permit even if you are headed to the range or traveling up north.

    She never CC much, due to job, and really just a choice she has made.
    On the bolded statement...
    Separate, yes. But the ammo does NOT have to be in the glove box as you stated.

    Separate is separate.

    This example is legal:
    Unloaded gun in container in trunk with a loaded magazine sitting right next to the gun in the same container in the trunk.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougwg View Post
    ...But the ammo does NOT have to be in the glove box as you stated...Separate is separate...
    Your correct, but there have been a few times the issue was reviewed by a judge. For example after an accident where the contents of a car made it unclear what was where.

    Little precaution that is free, even if unlikely event, can save a lot later.
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  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    What seminar? Where? When?
    Hmm, if all of this is correct, it sounds like you can OC at the hardware store in town, and, uhm ,well...
    I'll try to find some time to look into this tomorrow and let you know if I can find a loophole.
    Personally I think the whole deal is nothing but male cow feces.
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  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    Indirectly, your correct that MI is 21 & up when concerned about carry rights. From purchase to carry. The loop hole, depending how you look at it, is that you own a pistol (if I'm not mistaken, you can't purchase from a store) and that OC allows you to carry.

    Not stating I share this view, only your sort of right.

    It has never been challenged to my knowledge, but a few counties have even stated MI only allows for transportion (with out a CC permit), and it has been suggested this means to your home and the gun shop (maybe not even the range). I'm not stating this is the law, only that some of the anti LE / politicians in MI have made these statements.



    In contrast to what I just stated, as I was only stating those that are looking to make a problem with transportation related issues, I doubt you can't have it in say a trunk of a car.

    Important that it be locked up, unloaded, and seperated from ammo. Pistol in trunk and ammo in glove box.

    I'm not 100 % on that, as you bring up an interesting point.

    It is the reason my wife got her CC permit. Some uneasiness with how the law reads, and just easier to have the permit even if you are headed to the range or traveling up north.

    She never CC much, due to job, and really just a choice she has made.
    The parts That you have stated I cannot transport my gun unless going from my house to the range is completely false. look at the bold..

    750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.
    Sec. 231a.

    (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.

    (b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.

    (c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.

    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    (2) As used in this section:

    (a) "Antique firearm" means either of the following:

    (i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.

    (ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

    (b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following:

    (i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.

    (ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.

    (iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.

    (iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency or for the purpose of having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.

    (v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or sale.

    (vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

    (vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance
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    Member Array langenc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Spec
    ...pretty much I can't even OC while 19 and under the age to buy alcohol in any place that is under the liquor act. Please someone help me and find a loop hole...

    ""Indirectly, your correct that MI is 21 & up when concerned about carry rights. From purchase to carry. The loop hole, depending how you look at it, is that you own a pistol (if I'm not mistaken, you can't purchase from a store) and that OC allows you to carry.""

    I would suggest that the above posters contact opencarry.org.

    The advice noted dont at all agree with what the OC group is saying...question was about OC!!

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    ...You cannot even be on the property of the Licensed establishment. So don't even leave the gun in the car... it has to stay home...
    I believe it just depends on what condition you transport the firearm, and where you are going from and where you are headed after the stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    The parts That you have stated I cannot transport my gun unless going from my house to the range is completely false...
    Sorry, I did not look at the law you quoted. FYI, you may only be looking at a portion of it, and ther are other relevant statutes.

    Never shared what I think, only how those handful of LE looking for problems have desided it ment, and has been sighted by MI OCs in the last 5 to 10 years.

    I don't have the specifics, as frankly I have the CC permit so I can forget about it.

    I can't find one of my previous posts. There was an issue with OC with a MI CC permit in a school. Thre was a MSP contact name who responded to me by e-mail. If you can find it, or if someone can remember the MSP contact name (I think OC of MI often posts copies of his letter), that is the person / office you should contact with your question.

    If the MSP reply, I would be interested to see the post. Took about two weeks for them to reply to me.
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  16. #15
    Member Array Leader's Avatar
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    I believe you are talking about Sgt. Deasy. He has since moved on and another officer is in that position.
    As to being on the property of a place licensed by the liquor cont comm., that is the law. It was never intended to be that way but that is how it got written.
    Transport is another matter and yes, if you transport unloaded in the trunk, the ammo can be in the same case. You may transport to anyplace you may legally have a firearm.

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