This is a discussion on My NRA instructor was very against open carry within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is going around in exactly the same endless circles as every other thread like this goes every single time it gets posted. I'll leave ...
This is going around in exactly the same endless circles as every other thread like this goes every single time it gets posted.
I'll leave it open for now but, don't be surprised if a moderator comes along and whacks it right out of the ballpark.
I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.
I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.
Veni, Vidi, Velcro
An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein
QK said it all.
I for one, have observed different opinions form the Forum members (including myself) about the good, bad, and ugly of Open Carry. I DO UNDERSTAND that ALL of us have the " right, or priviledge" by our 2Nd Ammendment and our own State laws, to carry our Firearms, in what ever way we choose to do so. It seems to me, for example, that what may be widly acceptable in New Mexico, may be deemed as way out of line in another state on the East coast. To me, this will be an ongoing debate, that will go round and round, whether good bad or ugly. I live in a state that allows me to take my Full auto guns out, and shoot the heck out of em, including silenced guns. Some others here, only dream of what I take as every day stuff. this is the same as OC and CC, as some of us can do it and some can't. the TRUE responsibility rests on ALL of US. I hope, that one day, we have a NATIONAL Carry law, where WE can decide when and if WE choose to either OC or CC. Until that time comes,( it may or may not in our lifetime) WE must insure that WE act responsibly for our Childrens' sake, and help pass down the liberties we have enjoyed, being able to have private gun ownership, and the ability to either OC or CC in our own particular States.
OK, I'll sit down now, but I just had to get this off my chest, as I see this thread going Southbound and we're all friends here, as we're all drawn to this Forum for all the right reasons
Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll
Ok, so I can't stay off here. I would just like to say that I am for all of you who OC. And like was previously posted CLASS3HN, we are all on the same side. I hope that I have not offended anyone with my postings on this subject. I have always thought that an open disscussions with different viewpoints was productive to the experience of learning, or entertaining at least to challenge us to think outside of our own boxes. I would like to thank the moderators for their patience with this. I joined this forum to discuss my main passion which is guns, and hoped it would lead to an open discussion without emotional sensitivities controlling the tone, associated with the usual sacastic remarks and gang up on the opposing view mentality. I am fairly new to forums, this being the first one I have ever joined, so I guess I did not know how really volitile this topic was, but I have tried to keep an open mind. I have learned that many people open carry due to it being there only option, they do not have CCLs in there state. While others as a matter of convenience, in areas where it is socially acceptable. And still others as a way to do what they feel is their part by educating the public to gun ownership. These are things that I did not know before. So, once again, thank you moderators for your patience, and I may be in the minorty in my opinions here, but I will never try to discredit, demean, or otherwise engage in a debate with the intention of leaving it with only the knowledge I first went in with.
It keeps people from New Jersey, in New Jersey.
Sorry had to do it, its too heated in here.
I think that you can't guess what a criminal will do but you haveto realize they could have any reaction physically possible.
Some might flee if they see a OC others may just shoot the OC person first. Depends on if they don't mind a murder charge. Although they could just hold you up to take it you gun.
Where most criminals are looking for money or goods, that's going to be less likely in my opinion. But it is physically possible I would rule out that it has happened or could happen.
I think the important thing is that you carry however you feel comfortable so that you continue to do so.
If you like CC, great.
If OC works for you and your daily routine, that's good too.
I couldn't OC becuase I know it would not go over well at work and a few coworkers have expressed having some anxiety over it so I just CC and all is well. On the weekends I plan to OC though.
Someone should point out to him that if true this makes him even safer. While the BG is taking out the person who is openly carrying he can safely get away.The biggest thing that stuck out in my mind is that the instructor said if you open carry the bad guy's now know who to target first. He felt as if you are placing a target on yourself and they would focus on taking you out first before anyone else because you have the ability to fight back.
I know I'm going to tick people off, but it's a first hand experience.
I wanted to share this bit of info with you.
Mods, it you feel the need to drop this post, please do so, and with my respect to you, I'll understand.
I DO hope it never happens to any of you who OC, but here it is.
I once worked for a Security/ Investigations Company in Massachusetts named RSI International.
I was assigned to guard a McDonalds YES a Mikky Ds in Boston near Fenway Park on Boylston St. because of a rash if armed robberies. (Before we were assigned to the store, the bad guys were jumping over the counter to rob the store and got 5 figures in cash one night) This was around 1985 and, I believe, to this day, your food is served to you thru the bars across the counter. Now, I was UNIFORMED on a saturday night, during the mid Summer. I always stood in a strategic position where I could watch BOTH doorways, and have my back covered. I've been trained well, and know my strengths and weaknesses. I have the same mindset today, as I did then. (I was 32 then and now 57)
I went to the other side of the building, to observe an ongoing issue at the drive-thru area, when all of a sudden i felt this TUG on my side. I quickly turned, to find a guy behind me, tugging on my S&W 4" 686. With this in mind, I wheeled around, gave him a fast elbow jab to the face/nose area, which knocked him to the floor, stunning him. (mind you, I was wearing a duty rig, with a safariland high threat level type holster for that particular time frame era.
The guy swore at me, and shouted " why did you have to do that? all I wanted was to feel the wood on your gun"
Obviously, he was arrested by Boston PD and charged with attempted theft, and other infractions. If this happened to me, and I was in uniform, then what could/ might happen to a private Citizen who is OCing?
The point I'm attempting to make, and with all due respect is:
If you're going to OC, be very aware of the area, and people who are around you. The BGs know who you are, (because you're able to OC) but you don't know who they are.
Wear the appropriate type of holster, for the area you're traveling in. ( I see people with Blackhawk Serpa holsters, who believe it's safe for OC) Spend the money and get a good rig
Train train train for the unexpected, as there are plenty of idiots out there willing to push your buttons.
Remember, there ARE people out there, that are willing to attempt to have your OC right taken away, or freak out because you're "carrying a gun" and they're ignorant of the gun laws in your particular state. (plenty of them out there) Descresson is the key factor.
As I stated earlier, I hope for the day where we have a National Carry law, and be able to OC or CC at our descression. We must all work together, in order to asure our rights and privilges are passed on to our kids, and their kids.
Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll
I have some really cool western gun belts that I would love to wear every day. Rher is no way to conceal these, so it would have to be OC. I for one would love to see a day when everyone carrying in the open was common. Hey, to the OP who posted above me, I know about some of those McDonalds. Used to moonlight off duty in some of them and wore my off duty gear openly, but also wore my badge on a neck chain. They can be rough places in certain parts of town on the wrong night. I believe the only thing that gave me an advantage over a security guard was they knew if they started trouble, they would be handled immediatly. You know that McDonald job was the only place in 22 years of LE that I really felt I needed a back up. Isn't that crazy?
I also did the plainclothes thing as well. Concealed Carried with my ID on my neck inside my shirt, at the same store as I mentioned in my above Posting. I sat way in the back area, in order to observe the activities. Boston PD would come in, get something quick, give me a slight nod and wink, and be on their way.
Actually, I felt safer in plainclothes rather than in uniform.
Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll
Class3NH, you have kind of proven the point some of us are making. The vast majority of gun grabs occur to some type of uniformed person who OC's on their job. Every instance of a gun grab attempt or someone getting shot first I have seen is a LEO or security guard. Don't ask me why, but it seems the idiots of the world would rather take on someone in uniform rather than Joe Citizen who OC's. I can't explain it, but that is how it looks from where I am. Honestly, I wonder if some people feel like LEO's are softer targets than Joe OC'er. Sounds crazy but all the BG's know LEO's have rules and procedures to follow or they risk their job. Think about LA car chases. They run because they know the cops can only follow them. While Joe OC'er can immediately defend themselves if the need arises. Basically they don't know what Joe OC'er will do, but they can be pretty sure that the LEO cannot shoot them for trying. Even if they should be able to. Is it possible, sure, anything is possible. You could get shot first while CC'ing, just because they wanted to as well.
And retention is a great idea. And I do carry in a Serpa. I keep a good eye out for folks who get on my strong side or come up behind me. And I use any form of cover, shelves, carts, whatever to put between someone I don't know and my firearm.
I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!
"Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"