Open carry in ct?????

This is a discussion on Open carry in ct????? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK, #1 - Don't flatter yourself with telling me your a refreshing blast of much needed reality. You really sound like your stuck on yourself. ...

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Thread: Open carry in ct?????

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array ctclassic's Avatar
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    OK,
    #1 - Don't flatter yourself with telling me your a refreshing blast of much needed reality. You really sound like your stuck on yourself.
    #2 - The "issue" is the fact that we are talking about OUR 2nd Amendment Right. Not the revocation of permits.
    If someone is genuinely upset with me carrying openly in a C'store, and calls Johnny Law, (first off, all 911 operators should be properly trained in handling calls involving someone carrying a gun, theres REALITY for ya) because they are scared, or freaked out. Then Mr. Lawyer, does that mean that when I see my neighbor walking his badass pitbull down the street on a leach, does that give me the right to call the man and have him arrested because I fear for my life that he might set him loose and attack me( breaching my peace)...do you see the paralell? Please let me know.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctclassic View Post
    OK,
    #1 - Don't flatter yourself with telling me your a refreshing blast of much needed reality. You really sound like your stuck on yourself.
    That dry humor fell flat...eh. Next time I'll put more effort into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ctclassic View Post
    #2 - The "issue" is the fact that we are talking about OUR 2nd Amendment Right. Not the revocation of permits.
    And without the permit, your rights are effectively useless, because under D.C. v. Heller, the Supreme Court sanctioned registration and permits.

    Quote Originally Posted by ctclassic View Post
    If someone is genuinely upset with me carrying openly in a C'store, and calls Johnny Law, (first off, all 911 operators should be properly trained in handling calls involving someone carrying a gun, theres REALITY for ya) because they are scared, or freaked out. Then Mr. Lawyer, does that mean that when I see my neighbor walking his badass pitbull down the street on a leach, does that give me the right to call the man and have him arrested because I fear for my life that he might set him loose and attack me( breaching my peace)...do you see the paralell? Please let me know.
    You can call the police, and request they do something about the dog, and explain to them why you feel that the dog is making it dangerous for you to go down the street.

    As to having him arrested...you don't get to do that in any case.

    You can make a complaint, but the arrest is at the police officer's discretion.

    Your analogy works, but only to a point.

    Firearms are different than dogs, and different from a lot of other potentially dangerous items you can compare them to.

    It's the nature of the beast, and if you can't see that, this is a pointless discussion.

  4. #48
    Member Array JohnWFD's Avatar
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    I've been reading all the threads and have been living in CT all my life. I have also stayed awhile in South Carolina while serving in the Air Force. While in South Carolina, at the time it was against the law to carry concealed....

    While I believe it should be an individual's right to open carry or not, I can honestly see where our attorney friend Mitchell is coming from....I will choose to keep my weapon concealed here in CT..... in my opinion, the less people who know I am carrying a weapon the better!
    "A free people ought to be armed." - George Washington

  5. #49
    Ex Member Array ctclassic's Avatar
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    Going back to my original question. How is carrying a holstered handgun, considered threatening? How about my Schrade folding knife(in a case) or my Leatherman? I'm sorry momma smith and little susie fell uneasy with me oc'ing, as long as I am minding my own business and not bothering anyone, it's they who need a little enlightening on the laws and statues, and if YOU don't see that, your NOT doing YOUR job as a lawyer. Remember, I have the right to protect myself and my family, too bad if you/they can't see that.

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array tokerblue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctclassic View Post
    Going back to my original question. How is carrying a holstered handgun, considered threatening? How about my Schrade folding knife(in a case) or my Leatherman? I'm sorry momma smith and little susie fell uneasy with me oc'ing, as long as I am minding my own business and not bothering anyone, it's they who need a little enlightening on the laws and statues.
    - I don't think anyone here disagrees with you, but it doesn't change the fact that most people have no idea what the gun laws in their state actually are. I was talking to someone last week and they had no idea that if you had a permit, you could carry almost anywhere in the state. They thought you had to be in law enforcement.

    The average person gets their knowledge of guns from Hollywood.

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    when people see someone who is not law enforcement with a gun, they will assume the worse or at the very least go on high alert. just like I bet if some of us so someone printing we would keep an eye on them.

  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctclassic View Post
    Going back to my original question. How is carrying a holstered handgun, considered threatening? How about my Schrade folding knife(in a case) or my Leatherman? I'm sorry momma smith and little susie fell uneasy with me oc'ing, as long as I am minding my own business and not bothering anyone, it's they who need a little enlightening on the laws and statues, and if YOU don't see that, your NOT doing YOUR job as a lawyer. Remember, I have the right to protect myself and my family, too bad if you/they can't see that.
    How is carrying a holstered handgun considered threatening?

    Simply put, because most people these days are simply not used to seeing people not in uniform carrying guns. It puts them off - makes them uneasy - and some are actually scared. Take a look at a number of posts in the Open Carry part of DC and see how people respond to an openly carried handgun.

    It doesn't matter that your intent is simply to carry a weapon with which to defend yourself. In this day and age, when "hate speech" can be prosecuted as a crime in some places, are you at all surprised that some people might feel threatened by the mere presence of a handgun, even if it's not being handled?

    There are enough people out there, and maybe you've been fortunate enough not to run into any, who are simply mortified by firearms. My mother was one. I was visiting once and brought a new shotgun into the house to show my sister, and poor old Mom literally jumped. She moved to the other side of the room to be away from it. That reaction is far from unique; there are people who actually believe that guns can go off by themselves, and sadly, a lot of these people are making laws.

    MitchellCT's point is just that from a practical side, in CT if you carry openly you should anticipate that some people who see your weapon will have their "condition white" state of oblivion interrupted, and some of them will actually feel threatened. It may not be your intention to bother momma smith and little susie, but IF they are bothered by their perception of danger due to the presence of your exposed firearm, then you should be prepared for some intervention by law enforcement. Don't try to apply logic to it.
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  9. #53
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    I want to add that law enforcement should know the law. If they are called to the scene for a man open carrying and see no law being broken (waiving gun around etc...), they should ask a few questions, check to to see a permit (if applicable in your state) and then leave.

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro2A View Post
    I want to add that law enforcement should know the law. If they are called to the scene for a man open carrying and see no law being broken (waiving gun around etc...), they should ask a few questions, check to to see a permit (if applicable in your state) and then leave.
    I like what you have said "SHOULD KNOW" In doing this Report I have talk to Officers, SGT's. and LT's from Troop E , Norwich, New London and Groton. Non of then know that I could openly carry a firearm after reviewing the laws with them (and a friend of mine that happens to be my attorney) They started to see the light, as Non of them could find and where that stated that a firearm had to be concealed.

    I agree that I will not be openly carrying any time soon as I like the Idea that the BG's don't know I have a weapon till it is to late for them to target me first.
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  11. #55
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    I guess I have to accept the fact we live in a double standard type of life. There are a few things that make me uneasy in public, namely The Gothic style. But, that doesn't make them "bad" people. Just because I ride my Harley with a skull cap and leathers, (maybe OC'g) doesn't make ME a "bad" person. I realize we have a long way to go, but EVERY single time someone OC's in public it should eventually calm the fears of those among us that feel uneasy.
    Last edited by JD; May 14th, 2010 at 09:14 AM.

  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBC View Post
    I like what you have said "SHOULD KNOW" In doing this Report I have talk to Officers, SGT's. and LT's from Troop E , Norwich, New London and Groton. Non of then know that I could openly carry a firearm after reviewing the laws with them (and a friend of mine that happens to be my attorney) They started to see the light, as Non of them could find and where that stated that a firearm had to be concealed.

    I agree that I will not be openly carrying any time soon as I like the Idea that the BG's don't know I have a weapon till it is to late for them to target me first.

    Need to reach out to the dept that puts together the LEO annual training updates....and make sure that OC is covered in it.

    This was in last year's update training in PA. Granted, we still have LEO that don't know it, but at least we can cite it when discussing the situation...

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctclassic View Post
    and if YOU don't see that, your NOT doing YOUR job as a lawyer. Remember, I have the right to protect myself and my family, too bad if you/they can't see that.
    I've defended many people who's actions I disagreed with, and in many cases, found distasteful. I don't personally endorse the actions of those I represent.

    That goes for a crack head who stabbed someone in order to get money for a fix, or for a person who believed he can open carry to Stop & Shop in Westport or Greenwich that gets arrested because Miffy and Buffy saw his 1911 in the Mitch Rosen leather and got frightened, called 911 and the cops reacted negatively to the shopper with a gun.

    I've gotten people out of stupid errors that they could have avoided had they considered the consequences of the actions they were about to take, and defended willful misconduct.

    Sometimes on the same day...

    Thank you for telling me how to do my job, and that my experience in that job as been useless because I don't 100% agree with every client's actions or point of view.

    As to open carry, and how it becomes threatening - It is a heavily fact dependent situation. It is dependent on the location, time, people involved, body language, tones of voice and a host of other factors which I will not enumerate for you at present.

    I will obviously not be able to explain the situation to your satisfaction, and am willing to say I am likely not the lawyer for you because I will not tell you want you wish to hear - That people who chose to open carry in CT are 100% in the right, that the police are wrong, and that you will be vindicated in court either with the case being dismissed pretrial, or after a trial before a jury of your peers.

    How it should be isn't how it is.

    The police will write the report to justify the arrest on the charges of breach of peace, creating a public disturbance, threatening or so forth.

    The State's Attorney will likely accept the report at face value, and seek to prosecute the matter resulting in your using the Accelerated Rehabilitation program (your "once in a lifetime get out of Jail free card") or having you take a plea to a minor charge and getting the matter finished ASAP - and that's if you are lucky.

    The State Police will suspend or revoke your permit upon arrest, and you will have to deal with the Board of Firearm Permit Examiners to get your permit back after the conclusion of the matter if you or your lawyer cannot convince the State Police to simply give the permit back. (Yes, that does happen. If you ask very nicely...really. I handled a case were asking nicely was all it took. Could have knocked me over with a feather on that one...)

    Is it right? Is it fair?

    No and no.

    Can it and should it change?

    Yes and yes.

    But at this time, that is the way it is in the Nutmeg State.

    I am planning on doing a class/open discussion in the near future on when you can use your weapon, and what to expect in the aftermath of a use of force situation, including what to say to the police, how to arrange bond & raise money in the aftermath of a situation quickly, the criminal court system in CT from a defendant's point of view and other topics yet undecided.

    I will make it open to everyone and it will be very low cost because the information is what people need to know if they are going to be carrying a handgun, but I am going to caution you that the content will likely not be what you want to hear, and that you will probably be better served by either not attending, or consulting an attorney who will charge you more and tell you what you want to hear.

    As to your right to protect your family, yes. You do have that right...but if you are going to exercise it ignorant of the rules for the use of force in the State of Connecticut, then it's going to be the equivalent of Russian Roulette with a 6 shot .357 wheelgun loaded with 3 rounds.

    I don't do assisted suicide, but if that's your thing, I ain't gonna tell you no.

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    MitchellCT.

    I would have interest in that class/open discussion. I like to learn and be informed. THX.

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    Mitchell,

    I am also interested in this class. Can you provide details as to the where & when? My wife and I would both be attending.

    Also, what are your thoughts on videotaping the class so that it can be reviewed periodically?

    Thanks,

    Mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    And therein lies the rub. Last time I looked, there is nothing in the statutes or in the permit application itself which stipulates that the weapon must be carried concealed. My CT permit says "permit to carry pistols and revolvers", whereas my official permission in AZ is a "concealed weapons permit."

    If nothing else, the current flap should serve the purpose of clarifying the requirements, so the common misinterpretation of existing statutes and the "make up the rules as you go" inclination of certain LE agencies become history.
    CT LEOs have no humor for Oc or similer As I see it "fool with the bull, you get the horns" I hate to see honest people go and get the shaft by the State, but it's true, Ct is just like Masachusetts, you have a pistol permit "license to carry firearms' (Ma) or Permit to carry pistols and revolvers (Ct) but if you ever O/C'd in Mass, as more likely well as CT, you're most likely to be cuffed and stuffed, and say goodbye to your guns and permit.
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