Off-duty FL LEO O/C?

This is a discussion on Off-duty FL LEO O/C? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I would have made the same assumption....

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Thread: Off-duty FL LEO O/C?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    I would have made the same assumption.
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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    No you cannot, even as off duty LEO, open carry in Florida unless (as stated several times, also displaying a badge. That is not word of mouth, that is from the ATF book itself.
    Tally,
    Not trying to be argumentative here, just a genuine question: What "ATF book" defines the legality of LEO off-duty carry in Florida? Or does "ATF", in this case, refer to some state agency or regulation (as opposed to the federal agency)?
    Thanks,
    Gonzo
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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo View Post
    Tally,
    Not trying to be argumentative here, just a genuine question: What "ATF book" defines the legality of LEO off-duty carry in Florida? Or does "ATF", in this case, refer to some state agency or regulation (as opposed to the federal agency)?
    Thanks,
    Gonzo
    I was kinda wondering that too.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo View Post
    Tally,
    Not trying to be argumentative here, just a genuine question: What "ATF book" defines the legality of LEO off-duty carry in Florida? Or does "ATF", in this case, refer to some state agency or regulation (as opposed to the federal agency)?
    Thanks,
    Gonzo
    ATF, Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms Federal Regulations manual covers all federal laws of weapons regulation, which also covers many state regulations.

    When I worked at the guns store last year we always referred to the ATF manual when regulations were in question. It had sections in it for each state and the laws and definitions were greatly expanded over what you find on the states own website.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
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  6. #20
    Member Array alyehoud's Avatar
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    This is mostly theoretical for me since I have a FL CCW, and would probably not OC ever anyway - just like to know the laws and my limits within them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD
    Your law enforcement credentials allow you to carry concealed, nationwide, without a permit or license while off duty.
    So, technically, an off duty LEO can carry concealed in other states. Does this include Chicago, D.C., NYC, etc? I would assume it does, but would be asking for trouble. Enlighten me please

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by alyehoud View Post
    This is mostly theoretical for me since I have a FL CCW, and would probably not OC ever anyway - just like to know the laws and my limits within them.



    So, technically, an off duty LEO can carry concealed in other states. Does this include Chicago, D.C., NYC, etc? I would assume it does, but would be asking for trouble. Enlighten me please
    Yes, they are still part of the USA.
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    No you cannot, even as off duty LEO, open carry in Florida unless (as stated several times, also displaying a badge. That is not word of mouth, that is from the ATF book itself.
    What does the ATF have to do with carrying a gun? The ATF doesn't make state law.

    Your law enforcement credentials allow you to carry concealed, nationwide, without a permit or license while off duty.
    Wrong. You need to have a certified LEOSA card to carry nation wide, while off duty.

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    What does the ATF have to do with carrying a gun? The ATF doesn't make state law.
    No, but the large phone book sized ATF book we had listed all states laws, each by state. It also had the complete law word by word instead of abbreviated versions you sometimes find online.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    Wrong. You need to have a certified LEOSA card to carry nation wide, while off duty.
    Can you quote/cite your resource for this? According to the new Homeland Security laws, all LEO are granted rights to carry their weapon at all times while off duty without a license or permit anywhere in the United States. This does not include aboard an aircraft.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    Can you quote/cite your resource for this? According to the new Homeland Security laws, all LEO are granted rights to carry their weapon at all times while off duty without a license or permit anywhere in the United States. This does not include aboard an aircraft.
    You do not automatically assume the "priviledge" of carrying nationally the day you graduate police academy. There are certain requirements and you must be cleared by your CLEO to gain LEOSA protections.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    No, but the large phone book sized ATF book we had listed all states laws, each by state.
    Now I understand what you were saying. ATF (and federal law) have absolutely no bearing on whether or not a FL LEO can OC off duty or not. However, a handy ATF book that cites the appropriate Florida State law would make sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    According to the new Homeland Security laws, all LEO are granted rights to carry their weapon at all times while off duty without a license or permit anywhere in the United States. This does not include aboard an aircraft.
    Actually, there is nothing in any Homeland Security laws about this. I think you mean LEOASA (Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act). And, as has been cited, there are certain caveats to that.
    Gonzo
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  12. #26
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    Wrong. You need to have a certified LEOSA card to carry nation wide, while off duty.
    Hmmmm....

    Where can I get me one of these "certified LEOSA cards"? I've never seen one or heard of one until now.
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  13. #27
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Hmmmm....

    Where can I get me one of these "certified LEOSA cards"? I've never seen one or heard of one until now.
    Same company that sells Concealed Carry badges!!
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

  14. #28
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  15. #29
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    The issuing agency that gives you your ID card puts an endorsement on the back basically that you are a qualified LEO and entitled to carry a concealed firearm under the provisions of 18 US CODE 926B. There is no seperate card. An officers badge means very little, identifying him as a display of authority. Anyone can buy one. It is the ID card that identifys the man behind the badge, and describes his authority, and who it is from.

  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004

    On July 22nd, President Bush signed the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004, Public Law No. 108-277. The Act became effective upon the President's signature. The Act amends the Gun Control Act (GCA) to exempt qualified active and retired law enforcement officers from State and local laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed firearms.

    The officers and retired officers eligible for the exemption are those meeting the Act’s definition of “qualified law enforcement officer” and “qualified retired law enforcement officer.” Among other things, the Act’s definition requires qualified retired law enforcement officers to meet, at their own expense, their State’s standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers. Eligible active and retired officers must also possess certain identification. Active officers may use the identification issued by the government agency by which they are employed. Retired law enforcement officers must have identification indicating that they have been tested or otherwise found to meet firearms standards established for active law enforcement officers.

    Qualified active and retired officers eligible for the exemption are still subject to certain provisions of the GCA. The Act specifically states that persons who are prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm are not eligible for the exemption. In addition, qualified current and retired officers must undergo a National Instant Criminal Background Check System (“NICS”) check if they are purchasing a firearm for their own use, and federal firearms licensees must still complete and retain required records under the GCA.




    SUMMARY of The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) of 2004
    On July 22, 2004, the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) of 2004, also commonly called “HR 218,” became law. (18 U.S.C. , 926B, 926C.) This federal law allows “a qualified law enforcement officer” or “a qualified retired law enforcement officer” with identification that meets specified criteria to carry a concealed firearm anywhere in the nation, notwithstanding most other state and local laws which restrict the possession of concealed weapons.

    In order to be “a qualified law enforcement officer” under the LEOSA, a person must meet the following requirements:
    1. Be an employee of a governmental agency who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for any violation of law;
    2. Have the statutory powers of arrest;
    3. Be authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;
    4. Not be the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;
    5. Meet the standards, if any, established by the agency that require employees to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;
    6. Not be under the influence of alcohol or any intoxicating or hallucinatory drug;
    7. Not be prohibited by federal law from possessing firearms;
    8. Be carrying photographic identification issued by the governmental agency identifying the individual as a law enforcement officer.

    Regarding the requirement that the individual have the statutory power of arrest to be a “qualified law enforcement officer,” California law allows “a peace officer” to make an arrest. (Pen. Code, 834.) Penal Code sections 830.1 through 832.6 specify the persons who are peace officers and when and where they may use their authority. No one else is considered a peace officer under California law. (Pen. Code, 830.)

    In order to be “a qualified retired law enforcement officer” under the LEOSA, a person must meet the following criteria:
    1. Be retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer for reasons other than mental instability;
    2. Prior to retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for any violation of law;
    3. Prior to retirement, had the statutory powers of arrest;
    4. Prior to retirement, was either
    (1) regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15 years or more; or
    (2) retired from service after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by the agency;
    5. Has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency;
    6. Has met, within the past 12 months, the state’s standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms;
    7. Not be prohibited by federal law from possessing firearms;
    8. Be carrying identification that meets specified criteria (see below).

    In order to qualify as “identification” under the LEOSA, a credential that is carried by a retired law enforcement officer must meet one of the following criteria:
    1. A photographic identification issued by the agency from which the law enforcement officer retired that indicates the retired law enforcement officer has, not less recently than one year prior, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm;

    OR

    2. A photographic identification issued by the agency from which the law enforcement officer retired;

    AND

    A “certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less than one year [prior] . . . been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.”
    Both “qualified law enforcement officers” and “qualified retired law enforcement officers” are required to meet the state’s standards for the “training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms” under the LEOSA. Penal Code Section 832.3 sets forth the initial and continuing training and testing requirements for peace officers in California. The specific curriculum for the training of peace officers is established by the California Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training (P.O.S.T.). However, current California law does not set a statewide standard for the training and qualification of active law enforcement officers after graduation from the academy. Standards are established by individual law enforcement agencies for both active and retired officers in those agencies.
    The LEOSA has limits and exceptions. It does not apply to all firearms and weapons. For example, it does not authorize either qualified law enforcement officers, or qualified retired law enforcement officers, to carry any of the following: machine guns, silencers, or destructive devices.

    Likewise, the LEOSA does not supersede all state laws regarding the possession of concealed firearms.
    The LEOSA states that it “shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that
    (1) allow private persons . . . to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base or park.”
    An individual who would like to know whether he or she qualifies as either a “qualified law enforcement officer,” or a “qualified retired law enforcement officer,” should consult with his or her employing agency and its legal counsel and may wish to obtain legal advice from an attorney licensed to practice law in the state of California.
    Last edited by Tally XD; May 2nd, 2010 at 07:09 PM.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

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