going armed in terror of the public - Page 3

going armed in terror of the public

This is a discussion on going armed in terror of the public within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by glockman10mm Causing a public alarm is a law enforcable by penaltys. There are some states that have specifically placed into the statutes ...

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Thread: going armed in terror of the public

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Causing a public alarm is a law enforcable by penaltys.
    There are some states that have specifically placed into the statutes wording indicating that mere carry of a firearm SHALL NOT be considered a crime, given how awfully misused such "public alarm" type statutes tend to be when it comes to upstanding citizens not "causing" anything. Sadly, such wording hasn't made it to very many states.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  2. #32
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Is it a law written explicity giving one permission to carry, or is it that there is just no law prohibiting OC. Is OC a right given by a written law, or simpy one exercised in the absence of a law prohibiting it? Causing a public alarm is a law enforcable by penaltys. There are no rights or privilages that do not have restrictions. My state is either OC or CC. However I prefer to CC. Even in the old west many towns banned the open carry of firearms. Expect to see more negative attention on guns as more idiots like this attemt to make a statement just because they are trying to make some kind of point. Discreetness and common sense would serve us better than an just because I can agenda.
    There is no law that allows OC in NC. There are laws that prohibit the open or concealed carry of weapons in certain places. Mainly, the CC laws also apply to OC in NC, with 2 exceptions. To answer one of your questions, it is both a right enumerated in our Constitution and supported by case law as well as something that is not illegal because their is no law making it illegal. But there are no laws making it illegal, most likely because of the strength of the case law supporting open carry. Unfortunately, a lot of folks in NC are unaware of the case law.

    However, we have a rather strong 2A Constitution.

    Sec. 30. Militia and the right to bear arms.
    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained, and the military shall be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Nothing herein shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons, or prevent the General Assembly from enacting penal statutes against that practice.

    This has been interpreted by the NC Supreme Court in several court cases to allow OC of firearms.

    State v LR Speller

    We concede the full force of the ingenious argument made by counsel upon this point, but cannot admit its application to the statute in question. The distinction between the "right to keep and bear arms," and "the practice of carrying concealed weapons" is plainly observed in the constitution of this state. The first, it is declared, shall not be infringed, while the latter may be prohibited. Art. I, sec. 24.

    and

    It does not say that a citizen when beset with danger shall not provide for his security by wearing such arms as may be essential to that end; but simply that if he does do so, he must wear them openly, and so as to be seen by those with whom he may come in contact.

    State v Kerner

    The Constitution of this state, section 24, art. 1, which is entitled, "Declaration of Rights," provides, "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed," adding, "nothing herein contained shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons or prevent the Legislature from enacting penal statutes against said practice." This exception indicates the extent to which the right of the people to bear arms can be restricted; that is, the Legislature can prohibit the carrying of concealed weapons but no further. This constitutional guaranty was construed in State v. Speller, 86 N.C. 697, in which it was held that the distinction was between the "right to keep and bear arms" and the "practice of carrying concealed weapons." The former is a sacred right based upon the experience of the ages in order that the people may be accustomed to bear arms and ready to use them for the protection of their liberties or their country when occasion serves. The provision against carrying them concealed was to prevent assassinations or advantages taken by the lawless; i.e., against the abuse of the privilege.


    State v Huntley, geared directly toward defining GATTTOTP.

    But although a gun is an "unusual weapon," it is to be remembered that the carrying of a gun, per se, constitutes no (p.423)offence. For any lawful purpose--either of business or amusement--the citizen is at perfect liberty to carry his gun. It is the wicked purpose, and the mischievous result, which essentially constitute the crime. He shall not carry about this or any other weapon of death to terrify and alarm, and in such manner as naturally will terrify and alarm a peaceful people.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

  3. #33
    Member Array kd5nrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steyrsdad View Post
    the car thing is not uncommon around here alot of young react/vf types have these type of lights and scanners and such. Not my thing but to each there owne . I will bet there is some one on this site that has this same type of set up??????????
    I should get some photos of the parking lot at the next Skywarn training. Most of us prefer discreet warning lights or magmount rotators, but discreet placement is a lot more in-depth than just bolting them on, and magmounts tend to trash paint. As such, we have quite a few guys with bumper or roof mounted lightbars. Hardly the young crowd, either; the guys with the most lights are mostly over 50.

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Florida eliminated OC when it passed the CCW statute in 1989. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement records show that less than 1/10 of 1% of all CCW permits have been revoked for illegal acts. Having CCW only has eliminated many of the problems that OC can bring with it. Our CCW allows not only firearms but knives, impact weapons and electronic devices to be concealed. Out of sight out of mind until needed. No fear or alarm generated by a OC individual with no displayed credentials authorizing such. I support the 2nd Amendment and so does the State of Florida they just put a restriction on the method of carry on your person.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

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  5. #35
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    MN is even better- it's permit to carry and you can OC or CC as you desire. That way there isn't an issue if it becomes uncovered.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    He has been arrested now twice. Something isn't right. How many folks here have been arrested twice for unrelated events and been innocent, had the charges dropped, both times.

    In some off topic threads OPFOR likes to play with probabilities. He presents some interesting games and math puzzles. Well the probability of being arrested twice and being completely innocent is quite low. I'll leave the calculations for a different thread.
    In the past few years I have been arrested twice.

    Once four hours after a motorcycle accident awaiting emergency surgery on the gurney tubes up my nose & down my throat, IV lines in both arms on a morphine drip, a catheter up my johnson. LEO has a blood test taken as I lay there unconscious. Charged with DUI because there was morphine in my system.

    Pulled over for a burnt out license light officer sees wifes gun. Sticks a gun to my wife face and my head jumping around like a leaping leprechaun with a jumping bean enema. Cuffs me, searches me and puts me into the back of his car. Until the State Patrol showed up and informed him I had done nothing illegal, that WA is an open carry state.

    I've also been charged with assaults that were dismissed. A man was pummeling his wife putting the boots to her, resulting in her being in the hospital for over a month. Got his arm and leg got broken and had a concussion from hitting the ground, when he refused to stop. The wife turned on me claiming she and her kind gentle loving husband were attacked by me. Witnesses confirmed my version. They had a prior history of domestic abuse where she had recanted. Charges dismissed prior to trial. Still those things come up to haunt me from time to time which really ticks me off BTW. Not guilty is NOT guilty, innocent.

    We either believe in our system or not. A crime has not been committed just because some jerk off says one was. A man must be proven guilty. We do not live in nazi germany where a man is a criminal because some gestapo moron says he is.

    In America a man is INNOCENT until proven guilty or should you carry the stigma of being some kind of scum bag just because someone accuses you of it? If you shouldn't, why do you do that to others?
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    However, those who do prefer open carry should not be surprised or become incredulous when they frighten the sheep and there is sometimes a negative response from the sheep herder (police) when that happens. It's something OC'ers are going to have to deal with from time to time and to act surprised at such a thing happening I think is a bit disingenuous at best.

    JMHO.
    I normally agree with most of your posts but this one confuses me. Why should I or anyone else expect a negative response from someone who is sworn to enforce and uphold the law when I am following the law? If I were to expect anything from him it would be for him to do his job and hopefully defuse the situation by informing the person who made the man with a gun call of the laws.
    His problem is not with the person carrying the weapon but with the person who reported it.

    Michael

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I normally agree with most of your posts but this one confuses me. Why should I or anyone else expect a negative response from someone who is sworn to enforce and uphold the law when I am following the law? If I were to expect anything from him it would be for him to do his job and hopefully defuse the situation by informing the person who made the man with a gun call of the laws.
    His problem is not with the person carrying the weapon but with the person who reported it.

    Michael
    You got me on that one. The responding LEO should be informing the sheep the legality of those carrying a gun. I agree with that 100%

    The sheep are still gonna over react and even if you stampede the herd, the law officer should be respectful of those abiding by the law and not harass them.

    I wasn't real clear in my post where I understand why people who are anti-gun freak out and call the police... What I wasn't clear about was the police should not roust the gun owner. But there's no doubt that sometimes that's exactly what the police do. Is roust the gun owner and there shouldn't be a big surprise when they do.

    Not suggesting it should be ignored when they do. They absolutely should be called on it. A complaint is in order if they do harass you.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    The sheep are still gonna over react and even if you stampede the herd ...
    Criminals engaging in active crimes stampede the herd. Citizens going about their business do not, not even the couple of folks who have carried AR-15's to public events. Even the most fearful sheep can make the distinction between active, suspicious criminal behavior and simple running of errands like normal citizen.

    Imagine how far we'd be if LE departments would simply read the memos, enact the training, and then take it to heart all throughout the system, including 911 calls for MWAG. Even the slowest agency out there should have understood and implemented the relevant changes by now, a decade and more later in most states.

    It's good to see PA and other states beginning to treat this area of the statutes responsibly, at long last. I hope it continues. At some point, perhaps it'll even reach here to Oregon's liberal centers. Imagine that.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #40
    Member Array shooter380's Avatar
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    Chiefjason,

    Thank you for two very informative post on this thread. They are much appreciated

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    Hi from NC, good point first poster. That's why I don't open carry. If you have the ability to CCW why would you open carry. I am paranoid as it is with the weapon concealed. Let alone having it out in the open and drawing attention. Not against open carry, just against extra attention when I don't need it. Just my 2 cents.
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

  12. #42
    Member Array calynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLion View Post
    If you have the ability to CCW why would you open carry.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLion View Post
    I am paranoid as it is with the weapon concealed. Let alone having it out in the open and drawing attention.
    I can see being nervous, but if you're paranoid while CCing you should reevaluate carrying a weapon.

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calynn View Post

    I can see being nervous, but if you're paranoid while CCing you should reevaluate carrying a weapon.
    I read it as being a newbie and that just takes time. After it becomes second nature and newbies are more comfortable with the whole carry thing is when they often start seeing having to wear a cover garment 365 days a year as an unnecessary hassle.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  14. #44
    Member Array tom n8ies's Avatar
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    KimberGuy

    A little off topic here.

    There are several videos of this guy being hassled on several different occasions by police (in Jackson MI I think) for open carrying on you tube, just do a search for KimberGuy.Michigan is an open carry state and if you have a CPL the only places you can not open carry are post offices and court buildings according to AG opinions. (there are several places you can not carry concealed like schools and hospitals and bars (to name a few) but you can carry in all these places openly.
    There are federal buildings and properties in the state that are no carry period.


    Link: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrKimberGuy#p/f

    Police are too zealous about their ideas about civilians with guns.

    tom

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom n8ies View Post
    A little off topic here.

    There are several videos of this guy being hassled by police (in Jackson MI I think) for open carrying on you tube, just do a search for KimberGuy.

    Police are too zealous about their ideas about civilians with guns.

    tom
    I understand why you may think that but not really true. We know things and experience things you probably never will. Have you ever been to the range and been around someone there who made you nervous the way he handled his weapon? He probably thought he was a pro, and would have taken offense if you checked him on his unsafe handling of the weapon. We are zealous so we make sure we go home at the end of the day. Nothing more.

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