My first LEO encounter while open carrying
This is a discussion on My first LEO encounter while open carrying within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Treo
Why does a legally armed citizen constitute a "threat" that requires the officer be put "at ease" How about the cop ...
April 29th, 2010 11:57 AM
Work with the unstable, emotionally distraught, drug-using or mentally ill populations and you might be thinking a little differently.
Originally Posted by Treo
Have you watched this video (I'm sure it's posted here on the forum somewhere)? Video : Hamilton officer cleared in fatal shooting during January traffic stop
There are lots of times a "legally anything" citizen-wasn't. If we could trust everyone we come across, we wouldn't be carrying guns, would we?
April 29th, 2010 12:37 PM
the last thing you want is a surprised cop. sometime stating that you are armed even though it might not be required (as in tn) you still do in order to be up front and honest. if i tell him he is less likely to pull his glock on me when it shows, also if he never pulls his weapon i dont have to worry how twitchy his trigger finger is. I know they are properly trained but sometimes some fall through the cracks.
April 29th, 2010 01:18 PM
My personal opinion--just an opinion--is that having & showing a concealed carry permit, along with being a requirement, sort of "vetts" you to the officer as a more or less sane citizen.
April 29th, 2010 05:03 PM
Really? I work in a PM&R clinic and you just described my day
Originally Posted by twelveeight
welcome to life in my world
Back on topic
My stand on this is well known, informing the officer that I am armed doesn't benefit me. CSPD generates a lot of revenue from traffic citations they do NOT (in my experience) give warnings. I don't believe showing my permit will stop them from ticketing me. Since I never inform unless specifically asked I've never been able to validate my theory.
An Officer can't tell at a glance that I'm a good guy any more than I can tell he's not an anti that doesn't think any civilian should be armed ( I DO have direct experience W/ this that I can draw data from).
Therefore it is in my best interest (IMO) not to inform, unless asked or the Officer asks me to step out of the vehicle.
If I'm a "certified goodguy" the mere posession of a firearm by me does NOT threaten the safety of the officer and should be of no concern.
The above is how I handle it if you choose to waive your rights (which is exactly what you do as soon as you open your mouth and start volunteering information ) that's your business. I hope it works for you
April 29th, 2010 05:47 PM
Once you said you were not carrying a Glock!! He should have given you a ticket right there!
April 29th, 2010 07:33 PM
Exactly Treo, the Officer CAN'T tell if you're a good guy from a glance. In this case, the OP was describing an incident in which he felt the Officer would notice the firearm, and therefore concluded that it may ameloriate negative consequences from the encounter by informing the Officer of its presence and his legal ability to have it.
Originally Posted by Treo
The idea that the possession of a firearm does not threaten the safety of an Officer is a fact known to you, and you only. As stated before by me implicitly, and by you directly, the Officer doesn't know anything about you; and subsequently is unable to identify your intentions with significant or immediately verifiable veracity . It is arguable that in the Officer's experience and training, he has deduced that being on the conservative side of caution may, in fact, better ensure his safety, and ultimately his life. In doing so, he may quickly identify a factor (such as a gun, knife or vehicle) that may be considered a threat by accounting for not only the ease and quickness in which such a factor can be brought to bear, but the undeniable ability of said factor to inflict great bodily harm or death.
It's important to distinguish the difference between an idealized world in which it is a socially accepted and socially perceived as normal behavior to openly carry a firearm; and the reality in which an Officer, and the public in general, must rely on established social norms and learned psychological constructs that likely vary from the way one wishes it to be.
Remember, there are always two sides to an encounter. In such a situation, each person brings their own personality (and all its parts) and experience, and uses them along with gathered information to assess and react. In this scenario, it is reasonable to conclude that in assessing the presence of a holstered firearm located on the Officer's belt, that one would classify such a presence as "expected." From the Officer's perspective, the presence of a firearm located on a civilian's belt, may range from "expected" to "threat", depending on a large range of variables (location, personal beliefs, training, time, physical appearance of the person, etc...).
Although this post is getting rather lengthy, I'm trying to justify my conclusion that informing the Officer would better be expected to ease the situation (if the Officer is likely to see the firearm); and that conversely having the Office "find" the firearm, would more likely generate undesirable outcomes.
This is in no way a statement of tactics, but of tact. If you are able to direct a situational outcome towards a more positive end (for you, the Officer, or both), why wouldn't you? I feel that by taking perspective of the encounter from both sides, you will find that taking offense because an Officer is concerned about you having a firearm is unwarranted (this is NOT relating to abuse of power or excessive badgering).
I'm for Open Carry, but you can't expect everyone to know that you're the "certified goodguy", and that you're not that one "certified goodguy", that has lost the "good" part.
April 30th, 2010 12:42 AM
Nothing says the gun is concealed when you are in your car in Michigan. However, it is considered unlawful transport to have the loaded handgun in the vehicle--the exceptions in that law make it legal for someone with a CPL to carry loaded in the vehicle.
Originally Posted by insignia240
If I'm wrong, I'd like to see the cite. Here's mine: (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
Anyways, glad to see the stop went pretty well. Here's the thing, though-your state most likely has a default speed limit depending on the location. If you're downtown, it's usually 25 or 30 unless otherwise posted. Most people remember that on backroads in the country the speed limit defaults to 55 when you don't see a speed limit sign, but they forget about the state's default speed limit inside city limits.
This page is a nice reference: Speed limits in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now, if people could just remember who has the right-of-way at 4-way stops. Seems everyone thinks the guy turning right always has the right-of-way. Usually adds a minute on my commute to work, but no big deal.
May 6th, 2010 12:57 PM
Personally I think that was a very safe and mature decision.
Originally Posted by INccwchris
According to HandGunLaw.us you aren't required to inform an officer if you're carrying (see top right hand corner of the pdf). I'm not sure if that's a drawn conclusion, since I don't recall seeing it in the statutes, or if it's specifically mentioned somewhere and I've missed it. I don't necessarily subscribe to the notion that if it's not outlawed, then it's allowed. Common sense is a better guide, and in this case it sounds like you used it.
May 6th, 2010 06:55 PM
Here we go again...
Why does a legally armed citizen constitute a "threat" that requires the officer be put "at ease" How about the cop gives up his gun to put me "at ease"
Can no one simply mention that they had a good contact with LEO without this coming up everytime..
Shouldn't there be a sticky thread that covers this..
This was the topic..I though it was a good encounter with LEO...
Really? I work in a PM&R clinic and you just described my day
welcome to life in my worldYouTube - ER drug seeker
Back on topic
You being a "good guy" verses him being "an Anti" has nothing to do with his safety at a traffic stop. I am assuming that if he is Anti that your worried he going to kill you for no reason...cuz that's his concern..Your dislike of officers knowning or not knowning that your armed is not even on the same planet as the dangers officers face from bad guys with firearms...
An Officer can't tell at a glance that I'm a good guy any more than I can tell he's not an anti that doesn't think any civilian should be armed
seriously... get over it.
"Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion..in private self defense." John Adams
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