I got MWAG'd yesterday evening.

This is a discussion on I got MWAG'd yesterday evening. within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Periodically when I go out for errands or dinner with the wife, I don't tuck my shirt in on my IWB, rather tuck in behind ...

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Thread: I got MWAG'd yesterday evening.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    I got MWAG'd yesterday evening.

    Periodically when I go out for errands or dinner with the wife, I don't tuck my shirt in on my IWB, rather tuck in behind it. Not that often, maybe once a week on average where I do not have a concealment garment (over shirt, jacket).

    Last night was another one of those nights, went to dinner, then to a used car lot to look at a RAV 4 with the wife.

    Nothing spectacular for the first 1/2 hour of waiting for a salesperson, and then finding the one they had advertised. Salesman pulled it into the "staging area" to get our info for the test drive, and I went through the motions of checking out the vehicle (quick inspection of engine and driveline).

    Got done with that, sitting in the back seat thinking we are heading out, and the manager sticks his head in the window and says, "You will need to put the gun in your vehicle before you go on a test drive in ours." Then he went into a statement of how he has a CCW as well, "I presume you have yours" and told me that I have to keep it concealed, it makes people scared ( ).

    I apologized for the inconvenience tucked my shirt over the weapon, and was about to tell him that I will not be going on the test drive, as I am not going to just leave it in my truck unattended (no car safe) when the wife says "There's a Sheriff here."

    Oh great.

    I look up at the officer, show him my hands and slowly slide over to his side of the vehicle and open the door. I get out with both hands slightly up (waist level) and away, and close the door.

    Officer: "You the guy with the gun?"

    Me: "Yessir."

    "Do you have a permit?"

    "Yessir. It is in my wallet in my right side back pocket below my weapon."

    "Go ahead and get it, let me see it."

    I slowly remove my wallet, and pull out my drivers license and my CO permit (my Nevada one was next in line but left it there). He looks over the permit, matches it against my drivers license, scrutinizes it, then asks me where it's from...which kind of stumped me as it says "Jefferson" in nice big letters across the top.

    He tells me to wait there and wonders off about 20 yards to radio it in. Meanwhile the wife having now verified that the vehicle we were looking at was not 4wd (which ended our dealings at the lot). "No, not interested in anything else you have unless it is a Rav 4 with a manual transmission, we've done our research and that is the vehicle we want... Yes, it has to be 4wd... No, we don't want to see any pickups, already have one... No we don't want to see any Explorers. What part of "All we are interested in is a 4wd Rav 4" did you not grasp?

    Now my wife and I are standing in their Vegas styled lighting staging area with another manager, no vehicle, 3 other customer groups looking at cars (actually us), the first manager standing by the entrance door, and the Sheriff now standing about 3 yards from me. I ask him if he is still waiting on a call back on my permit/license/wants and warrants...."Yup."

    He gets the "OK, valid and clean" report from dispatch, hands me back my license and permit and tells me that I need to keep it concealed.

    Now I know that OC is legal in CO everywhere but Denver city and county (which the boundaries are a mystery as they are zig/zaggy) and I knew we were close but should be outside. I pondered saying "No, I don't. OC is legal in Colorado" and going through the education session of either an opinionated or unfamiliar with those laws Sheriff. I decided that that was not the time or the place for what was sure to be an involved discussion and a guaranteed bad night for me with both the LEO and my wife afterwords.

    I thanked the officer, apologized for the hassle and wished him a good night. Turned to the manager, apologized to him for the scene and good night.

    As we were walking back towards our vehicle, 4 more cruisers whip into the lot. Not 1, 2, or 3......4 more. All the same county Sheriffs (you'd have thought they would have heard the "All is good" report on the radio). That gave me a bit of a chuckle. As we were pulling out, I noticed there were 2 more cruisers across the street in another parking lot (lights off) and a 5th one pulling in to ours.

    Now the expected discussion with the wife starts, where she got cranky that I did not tell her I was not concealed...Yup, bad night with the wife was a comin' . She had absolutely no sense of humor about he scene at all. Keep my mouth shut, it's safer that way.

    All in all I guess it was an acceptable interaction. I did not get disarmed and restrained. The Sheriff only spoke to me and did not tell the car lot people anything (He's legal, No problem here, ect.), no banning from the car lot, didn't get followed out of the area. Found out my permit is still valid and I have no mystery wants/warrants out.

    Could have been better, but given that appearance wise (aged levis and T-shirt, have not shaved in 3 weeks, a bit dirty from rolling around on the ground looking over the vehicle), and the area we were in, probably better than average. The overwhelming urge to tell my wife that under absolutely no circumstances is she going to dictate to me how I carry is still present...choose your battles.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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  3. #2
    Member Array FLSquirrelHunter's Avatar
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    In a day or two you'll still be thinking of 16 other things you woulda/coulda/shoulda done, but any time you walk away from a MWAG call without bleeding, "you done good." My guess is that there was more than one customer who told the dealer and left, some of whom called police on the way out.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Well, I already know that I will probably refrain from OC for a while, at least in my IWB holster.

    The whole time I was at the car lot, I was pleasant, smiled, greeted people as we walked by, and paid no attention to my weapon (no newbie shifting of the pants, making sure it is still there, touching it in any way...) and acutely aware of anyone within 10 feet of me out of my line of sight (behind me).

    If I left the spectators with the impression of "Some dude with a gun and nothing happened. No argument, yelling, threats, aggressive behavior, and to top it all off, the police let him go. Looks scruffy, but he must be OK." then it was a positive thing.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  5. #4
    Member Array oldogy's Avatar
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    "(aged levis and T-shirt, have not shaved in 3 weeks, a bit dirty) "

    Looks are important...........Actions are more so.
    oldogy
    Government is out of control
    "If gun laws in fact worked, the sponsors of this type of legislation should have no difficulty drawing upon long lists of examples of crime rates reduced by such legislation. That they cannot do so after a century and a half of trying -- " Sen Orrin G. Hatch

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array Barbary's Avatar
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    What I wonder is who called the police? Poor little, the 2nd Amendment is your friend.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Colorado is an OC state, but we are flooded with illegals and Californicators. I can honestly say that I have never seen anyone OC in the Denver metro area anytime that I am out and about.

    We have a huge amount of CCW permits issued, but no-one OCs.

    Black T-shirt (that says "Computer Associates - GoodWill buy), black weapon, black holster...I am surprised anyone even noticed.

    I'm borderline tempted to shave, address my hair a little different, put on a shirt & tie, and slacks, a decent leather OWB holster and go back for a free repeater to see if I get the same treatment, but I am too easily recognizable regardless of how I dress.

    Nah, not worth the hassle. CO needs more time to get used to the idea. Change is slow, and I don't want to be "That guy" that makes the news and posts poor judgment attempts at asserting his rights.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Now the expected discussion with the wife starts, where she got cranky that I did not tell her I was not concealed...Yup, bad night with the wife was a comin' . She had absolutely no sense of humor about he scene at all. Keep my mouth shut, it's safer that way.
    That seems to be the worst part of that interaction..........

    How's she feel about you OC'ing?

    My 'SHMBO'd' can't stand me walking around with my gun not covered......not that I OC much anyway. I've been married long enough to give myself a chuckle when I do OC and get her hackles up
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

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    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    The real learning needed to happen with the dispatcher- when you get a MWAG, you should ask, "What is he doing? Is he threatening anyone?" If the answer is "it's in his waistband while he is looking at a car" they shouldn't dispatch any officer, and certainly not five cruisers!
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  10. #9
    Member Array Billspider's Avatar
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    I work as an armed courier and I make sure that what I'm wearing totally conceals my G26. It is for my own protection. I don't want to be shot or harassed by a nervous LEO especially in and around Manhattan.
    I live in NY, so I am hyper sensitive to concealed carry.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Generally speaking a MWAG is a "hot" call. Depending on the additional information provided by the dispatcher and the number of calls received, is why you got so many units.

    If possible the desk and/or dispatcher should have passed on further info such as "person with a holstered gun shopping in car lot".

    Personally I would like to see a different call designation created such as "Person with holstered gun", for these types of situations. That would separate it from the usual MWAG call.

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array orangevol's Avatar
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    I'm sure as a resident you know your laws better than I do, but according to this website http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf
    Colorado issues a Concealed Carry Permit. It does not refer to the legality of open carry?

    Here in Tennessee our permit is a Handgun Carry Permit...making it perfectly legal to open carry.

    I often open carry especially in our hot summer months and believe how you dress will affect the reactions of those you come in contact with. I'm in my mid 50's, clean cut and usually wear Kakhi's or jeans with a golf shirt when I open carry. I carry a Glock in a Blackhawk Serpa holster with a spare mage weak side. I get the feeling most folks just think I'm a plain-clothes LEO, and don't even give me a second look. Apperance goes a long way when folks see you walking around with a gun on your hip.

    Added information...

    This gets more complicated.

    Frequently Asked Questions About Firearms Laws in Colorado from http://www.rmgo.org/faq/#WithoutPermit

    Who can Open Carry? Anybody who can legally possess a handgun.

    Generally, if you can own it, you can open carry it. For a handgun, anyone who is over 18 and not a prohibited possessor.

    Where can I Open Carry? Everywhere except where specifically prohibited.

    Basically, if it is not prohibited, it is allowed. Be very sure of where you can and cannot, as open carry can attract a great deal of attention. You do not want to unintentionally have that attention drawn to you when you are mistakenly in a prohibited area.
    Last edited by orangevol; May 22nd, 2010 at 12:59 PM. Reason: found more details
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  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    I would have battled with the LEO's the law THE LAW IS THE LAW I don't care about his opinions... If he was already checking in on your permit... ask him to check with the STATE law as well regarding OC... also how the heck does the county ban OC? State Law trumps local law... I would also be willing to fight that one as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    also how the heck does the county ban OC? State Law trumps local law... I would also be willing to fight that one as well.
    as I understand it....CO does allow OC except Denver
    evidently their local ordinances are allowed since there the state law doesn't trump local (preemption), someone from CO correct me if I'm wrong
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  15. #14
    jfl
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLSquirrelHunter View Post
    In a day or two you'll still be thinking of 16 other things you woulda/coulda/shoulda done, but any time you walk away from a MWAG call without bleeding, "you done good." My guess is that there was more than one customer who told the dealer and left, some of whom called police on the way out.
    I hope you are joking !
    In over 20 years of carrying, I had a few MWAG because my concealment was blown by the wind, I bent too low or whatever.
    It was always courteous, produced my permit, eventually got in a discussion about Glocks and SIGs.
    I don't where you live but it must be pretty rough.
    OTOH, I am an old, skinny guy, shaved everyday, short hair, jeans and white shirt (all these pilot shirts, too worn for uniform); it makes a difference. I am respectful and expect respect.

    Never, never in my life has a police officer touched me.
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

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  16. #15
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    In my opinion you behaved with common sense and for that I applaud you. Making a scene and all that malarky is for jerks. Congrats
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