Ultimatum From the Rabbi

This is a discussion on Ultimatum From the Rabbi within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've been carrying regularly for 4-1/2 years, mostly concealed, but have to open carry in restaurants that serve alcohol. My wife and I are Jewish ...

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Thread: Ultimatum From the Rabbi

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    Senior Member Array jofrdo's Avatar
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    Ultimatum From the Rabbi

    I've been carrying regularly for 4-1/2 years, mostly concealed, but have to open carry in restaurants that serve alcohol. My wife and I are Jewish and many, but not all, of our Jewish friends are far left liberals. I'm a financial officer in our congregation and wear several hats on various committees; I've made myself kind of indispensible as has she. We go out once or twice a week with the Rabbi and his wife, including many Friday nights after sabbath services. The president of the congregation also carries and attends these dinners with his wife, open carrying of course.

    The pres. told me today that about two weeks ago, the Rabbi called him in the middle of the day and wanted to talk and even drove to the president's office to meet with him. It was pretty much along the lines of "my wife and I are very uncomfortable being around you and jofrdo when you two have guns with you. We value your friendship but..." So the president promised to stop carrying around the Rabbi, but also pointed out that when he talks to me, I will have much stronger feelings about it.

    Well, the Rabbi hasn't approached me yet. When he does, I'll point out that on July 1 a new law takes effect and I will be able to keep the gun concealed so he won't have to see it, but that him asking me not to carry is simply out of bounds. If he wants to be a pacifist victim, fine. But I've made my decision to protect my life and to carry the tools with which to do so.

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    Member Array PiperLambie's Avatar
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    That does not seem to be at all an unreasonable response from you. After all, who wants to associate with someone whose ideals are flexible and will not stick to their guns (pun intended in this case)...Maybe a little additional education is in order for the Rabbi?
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    Senior Member Array jofrdo's Avatar
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    We had been out one Friday night when the Rabbi wasn't present. The Rabbi knows the restaurant owner quite well. Rabbi started the conversation with the president with "I understand that you and jofrdo were in xyz restaurant the other night, both brandishing firearms." The president had to explain it wouldn't be brandishing unless we had our guns out waving them around in a threatening way. I think more than a little education is in order.

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    Member Array Horsetrader's Avatar
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    I'm sure you are familiar with this website: Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership - Homepage
    "Improvise, adapt, overcome."

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    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    Wow it's too bad he's decided to take that position. I hope this situation works out for you.

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    Sorry to hear about this jofrdo. The wise Rabbi must have forgot about history.

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    He needs a sabbatical to Israel.
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    Your Rabbi inherited none of the wisdom of Solomon.
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    Member Array rangefinder's Avatar
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    I cannot understand the Rabbi's attitude. How old is he? Is he not aware of Jewish history of the 1930's?
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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    jofrdo,

    This attitude is very common, particularly in the Christian faith among more liberal pastors and lay persons.

    I have to admit I find it hard to believe that people who know history will not do something in order to not find it repeated.

    Keep us posted on if/when 'the talk' occurs, and how it goes.
    I agree with others-stick to your guns.

    Shalom.
    marcclarke likes this.
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    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jofrdo View Post
    I've been carrying regularly for 4-1/2 years, mostly concealed, but have to open carry in restaurants that serve alcohol. My wife and I are Jewish and many, but not all, of our Jewish friends are far left liberals. I'm a financial officer in our congregation and wear several hats on various committees; I've made myself kind of indispensible as has she. We go out once or twice a week with the Rabbi and his wife, including many Friday nights after sabbath services. The president of the congregation also carries and attends these dinners with his wife, open carrying of course.

    The pres. told me today that about two weeks ago, the Rabbi called him in the middle of the day and wanted to talk and even drove to the president's office to meet with him. It was pretty much along the lines of "my wife and I are very uncomfortable being around you and jofrdo when you two have guns with you. We value your friendship but..." So the president promised to stop carrying around the Rabbi, but also pointed out that when he talks to me, I will have much stronger feelings about it.

    Well, the Rabbi hasn't approached me yet. When he does, I'll point out that on July 1 a new law takes effect and I will be able to keep the gun concealed so he won't have to see it, but that him asking me not to carry is simply out of bounds. If he wants to be a pacifist victim, fine. But I've made my decision to protect my life and to carry the tools with which to do so.
    Our current state's laws on carrying guns in religious places stinks at best and needs to be reformed. Unfortunately, it is not allowed without his permission. I am afraid if he does insist, you will have to go by it. Otherwise it is a violation of state law and he can get you nailed for it. It be best you either leave your gun in the car or go to a different synanogue whose Rabbi tolerates open carry.
    Last edited by rstickle; May 24th, 2010 at 07:29 AM. Reason: Language work around.

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I recently had a conversation with a person of the jewish faith that like you and I carries a firearm for protection.

    I will say that after what happened in the 1930's, how anyone, of any faith, could not take responsibility for their own protection is beyond my comprehension. I didn't live through the 1930's or 1940's but my parents did.

    Are we doomed to repeat the history of the past because we don't study it? I will also say, jews from Israel don't seem to have this problem, in my expirience.

    Take care, stay safe and good luck with your Rabbi.

    Biker

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array jofrdo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Storm View Post
    Our current state's laws on carrying guns in religious places stinks at best and needs to be reformed. Unfortunately, it is not allowed without his permission. I am afraid if he does insist, you will have to go by it. Otherwise it is a violation of state law and he can get you nailed for it. It be best you either leave your gun in the car or go to a different synanogue whose Rabbi tolerates open carry.
    Carrying at services is something the Rabbi doesn't have ultimate say in; he's an employee of the congregation, although he would hold great sway over the board of directors. Both the president and the financial secretary (me) conceal carry to services. The treasurer is pro-gun; used to have a carry permit but allowed it to expire and sometimes comes to the range with us. Virginia law says it is illegal to carry a firearm to a house of worship during a meeting for religious purposes without good reason. A neo-nazi cell located 15 miles from our synagogue and who knows what kind of jihadist attack at any time is good and just reason in my book.

    I'm hoping he's worried enough about my reaction that he'll procrastinate on talking to me, July 1 will come, and I'll be able to conceal carry around him. He'll never see the gun again, and forget about it.

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    Member Array SteveinNEPA's Avatar
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    IF you do have the talk with him, let us know how it goes. Good luck and as you said, July 1st will come soon enough. Also as a side note pretty much not even related to this thread but My father is jewish and carries.
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    1. Being comfortable is not a right, and certainly isn't covered by the US and VA Constitutions.

    2. I hate to say it so bluntly, but 6 million Jews were not very comfortable being put to their deaths.

    3. Warsaw ghetto, a handful of Jews with few weapons holds off the German army for what, a month? What if they all had been armed?

    I would have less flattering things to say to anyone in his position who tried to coerce me to give up my gun.
    DirkD likes this.
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