Cabellas is anti OC - Page 7

Cabellas is anti OC

This is a discussion on Cabellas is anti OC within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by peckman28 No, it is not a property rights issue. The store does not belong to the manager, and corporate HQ says it ...

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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by peckman28 View Post
    No, it is not a property rights issue. The store does not belong to the manager, and corporate HQ says it follows whatever the state law allows you to do. If this was a mom and pops store and the owner asked him to cover up or leave, then absolutely it is a property rights issue. In this case, it is an issue of a misinformed manager. It doesn't mean you should make a scene, which it sounds like the OP didn't do anyway, but calling this a property rights issue is incorrect.
    +1 on the fact being....

    I have a question for all those who are saying "oh he should have not made a scene." Have you ever OC and had to speak with someone about the law? Don't be a computer chair quarterback if you don't have the experience on dealing with misinformed people. People don't really notice until the mangers make it a scene or the police start talking to you and then it is a scene.

    When LEO's approach myself i recite the Michigan law to them. "Yes officer i can do this MCL 123.1102 allows it. Attorney General Opinion 7101. states that I'm not brandishing my weapon in any way." They can't arrest me because their opinion is I should not be OCing. Same goes for a corp manager. "yes I understand your concern sir but your corporate policy is to follow state law, I just following the rules.

    Do those look the same^ ? they do to me.
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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusk View Post
    Jeezz, it wasnt as if they told you to leave or anything..........seems these days everyone is taking their rights to somewhat of an extreme, we all have them, we all want to keep them, we all abide by each others right for this or that whatever...........BUT, to p&m about being asked to cc isnt a big deal and really isnt an infringement on your right to carry open or cc to the degree you seem offended by..........get over it. Ya might see new signs now.........wonder what would have caused them to put those up anyways !!!
    Don't be small minded. The signs will not change based on this sole event when corporate has made it clear that they support OC. I am not P&m as you so eliquently put it.I am exercising my right to OC. A right unexercised is a right lost. Perhaps if you were to think about the whole situation that occured you would understand this. Look at all the people that have stated this. Why cant you understand that the manager was wrong. You would be just as PO'd if a cop hassled you for OC'ing when it is perfectly legal to do so. What happend to me is merely the same. I was hassled for no good reason, as I was operating under the laws of the state regarding OC. Perhaps some more research is in order for you to truly understand this point I am trying to make.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    You CC people just don't get it. You think that he (OC) is going to hurt the image of CC.. Hate to tell you if you are CC the right way people can't see the firearm. The policy of the company is to allow OC because of state law.

    First off the OP didn't "make a scene, or get rude" like all you people are making up. private property or not, the manager doesn't trump corporate policy. why didn't he "just cover up" because he doesn't have to. I would have calmly and politely informed the manager of his own mistake and then asked him to call someone with further knowledge if he disagreed with me. (i've done this before with a corporate owned store.) The rules are the rules... the manager has nothing to back his what he thinks are the rules. I won in my case, the manager said she had no grounds on asking me to leave, I was not being a "rude gun toting person."

    Thank you, it is nice to hear the voice of reason and logic every so often. Well said.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by peckman28 View Post
    No, it is not a property rights issue. The store does not belong to the manager, and corporate HQ says it follows whatever the state law allows you to do. If this was a mom and pops store and the owner asked him to cover up or leave, then absolutely it is a property rights issue. In this case, it is an issue of a misinformed manager. It doesn't mean you should make a scene, which it sounds like the OP didn't do anyway, but calling this a property rights issue is incorrect.
    The company has hired the manager (and employees) and, as such, the manager (and employees) represents and speaks (rightly or wrongly) for the company in all its policies and authority.

    To defy the manager would be no less than to defy an LEO's orders, who may or may not be correct. The proper response is to comply and upchannel the issue to the next level of responsibility--Corporate headquarters in this case. If, in fact, the manager and/or employees acted against Corp. policy, I'm sure the issue will be corrected.

    It is not my right or duty to argue his request, nor is it prudent to make a scene, which will almost always work against my favor. An email or letter is much more effective than a stand-your-ground scene at any business. The manager probably won't listen to you--the manager will listen to his boss.
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    The company has hired the manager (and employees) and, as such, the manager (and employees) represents and speaks (rightly or wrongly) for the company in all its policies and authority.

    To defy the manager would be no less than to defy an LEO's orders, who may or may not be correct. The proper response is to comply and upchannel the issue to the next level of responsibility--Corporate headquarters in this case. If, in fact, the manager and/or employees acted against Corp. policy, I'm sure the issue will be corrected.

    It is not my right or duty to argue his request, nor is it prudent to make a scene, which will almost always work against my favor. An email or letter is much more effective than a stand-your-ground scene at any business. The manager probably won't listen to you--the manager will listen to his boss.
    No scene was made, if you read my many posts, I did comply by covering up when asked to do so, simply to avoid a scene. Then, and only then did I ask for clarification from both the associate and the manager. After disagreeing with their opinion that I knew was flat out wrong, I left. No more, no less. No scene was made period. Just to clarify I was not arguing either. I was simply standing up for my rights to OC which are in direct accordance with corporates position on this matter. Enough said.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    The company has hired the manager (and employees) and, as such, the manager (and employees) represents and speaks (rightly or wrongly) for the company in all its policies and authority.

    To defy the manager would be no less than to defy an LEO's orders, who may or may not be correct. The proper response is to comply and upchannel the issue to the next level of responsibility--Corporate headquarters in this case. If, in fact, the manager and/or employees acted against Corp. policy, I'm sure the issue will be corrected.

    It is not my right or duty to argue his request, nor is it prudent to make a scene, which will almost always work against my favor. An email or letter is much more effective than a stand-your-ground scene at any business. The manager probably won't listen to you--the manager will listen to his boss.
    (read the bold above) = So when Hurricane Katrina hit the south and LEO's where going door to door disarming people would you then comply? The LEO has no grounds to do so but you are still going to listen to them? to comply? I'm not complying with an LEO if I'm not doing anything illegal.
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  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1780 View Post
    No scene was made, if you read my many posts, I did comply by covering up when asked to do so, simply to avoid a scene. Then, and only then did I ask for clarification from both the associate and the manager. After disagreeing with their opinion that I knew was flat out wrong, I left. No more, no less. No scene was made period. Just to clarify I was not arguing either. I was simply standing up for my rights to OC which are in direct accordance with corporates position on this matter. Enough said.
    Actually it's not enough said.

    Your two biggest supporters in this thread (the ones you keep agreeing with) keep wanting to argue that the manager really doesn't have any say if he differs from corporate policy. The truth is that he does have a say. He is Cabela's duly appointed representative of that store. What he says goes. It's not your job to talk sense to him or threaten him like you did (I'll take my business elsewhere and tell all my friends too). It's your job to comply, be polite and take it up later with a letter to corporate.

    Like I said in my last post he could have spoken to Dick or Jim that very morning on the phone or last Tuesday and policy was changed.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    (read the bold above) = So when Hurricane Katrina hit the south and LEO's where going door to door disarming people would you then comply? The LEO has no grounds to do so but you are still going to listen to them? to comply? I'm not complying with an LEO if I'm not doing anything illegal.
    When the alternative is a gunfight with 6 or 7 heavily armed officers the answer is yes. You'd be a fool not to.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Actually it's not enough said.

    Your two biggest supporters in this thread (the ones you keep agreeing with) keep wanting to argue that the manager really doesn't have any say if he differs from corporate policy. The truth is that he does have a say. He is Cabela's duly appointed representative of that store. What he says goes. It's not your job to talk sense to him or threaten him like you did (I'll take my business elsewhere and tell all my friends too). It's your job to comply, be polite and take it up later with a letter to corporate.

    Like I said in my last post he could have spoken to Dick or Jim that very morning on the phone or last Tuesday and policy was changed.
    Thats all fine and great. However I spoke to a few other people up the chain of command at Cabellas that very same day, and they informed me that Oc was fine as they follow the statues of the state regarding Oc or CC. So as I have stated numerous times, as have others their policy has not changed. I dont know of any other ways to put this. The manager was not correct.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    You CC people just don't get it. You think that he (OC) is going to hurt the image of CC.. Hate to tell you if you are CC the right way people can't see the firearm. The policy of the company is to allow OC because of state law.

    First off the OP didn't "make a scene, or get rude" like all you people are making up. private property or not, the manager doesn't trump corporate policy. why didn't he "just cover up" because he doesn't have to. I would have calmly and politely informed the manager of his own mistake and then asked him to call someone with further knowledge if he disagreed with me. (i've done this before with a corporate owned store.) The rules are the rules... the manager has nothing to back his what he thinks are the rules. I won in my case, the manager said she had no grounds on asking me to leave, I was not being a "rude gun toting person."
    Oh, I get it. And who cares if he is going to hurt the image of CC. If the store manager asks you to cover it, then do it. If you dont like it, then politely call the CO after you leave. In my state I would channel my energy toward our legislatures that stand in the way of gunrights instead of private business.
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  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    When the alternative is a gunfight with 6 or 7 heavily armed officers the answer is yes. You'd be a fool not to.
    But they are on your PRIVATE PROPERTY YOUR RULES TRUMP THEIRS... 2nd Amed rights They must have a search warrant to enter your house. And a gun fight? what? If you come out shooting at them first then your own lack of judgement does encourage this. But they can't just start shooting... police use lethal force when legal homeowner does nothing wrong??? WHAT?? can't see this happening..
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  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormy View Post
    Oh, I get it. And who cares if he is going to hurt the image of CC. If the store manager asks you to cover it, then do it. If you dont like it, then politely call the CO after you leave. In my state I would channel my energy toward our legislatures that stand in the way of gunrights instead of private business.
    Look i'm not bashing you CCer's. But CC is much easier than OC. OC everyone can see it, you must be confident enough to know the laws and how to speak with other when confronted about it. You must stand your ground to some degree and give the facts in a respectful manner. The OP did just that despite all the comments of him being rude and making a scene. (he did not) You can't OC and expect not to run into confrontation, you'd be in a dream world.

    All you guys are saying is to shut up and be forced to comply with anyone who ever is not comfortable with OC and you must follow their opinions not matter what the law/policy is. I'm not seeing what your trying to accomplish by backing down.
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  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by peckman28 View Post
    No, it is not a property rights issue. The store does not belong to the manager, and corporate HQ says it follows whatever the state law allows you to do. If this was a mom and pops store and the owner asked him to cover up or leave, then absolutely it is a property rights issue. In this case, it is an issue of a misinformed manager. It doesn't mean you should make a scene, which it sounds like the OP didn't do anyway, but calling this a property rights issue is incorrect.
    It is always a property rights issue when property owners and their agents ask an invitee (for example someone invited to the land for the purpose of business) to leave or comply.

    There are some factors as to if you must comply, but if the invitee is not being legally restrainted, and assuming the invitee is not denyed access on grounds of race, religion, gender, or ethnicity, the likely options for the invitee is to comply, leave after reasonable discourse, or face various potential penalties (from criminal to civil).

    As to if a judge, jury, etc. would ever find against the invitee, is a seperate issue. The only certainity is it is a property rights issue.
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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    The company has hired the manager (and employees) and, as such, the manager (and employees) represents and speaks (rightly or wrongly) for the company in all its policies and authority.
    Unless of course the manager was seen shouting racial slurs, then the company would make a statement such as: 'the manager's actions in this incident do not reflect the views of our company, and the manager has been dealt with appropriately.'

    Politics..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    But they are on your PRIVATE PROPERTY YOUR RULES TRUMP THEIRS... 2nd Amed rights They must have a search warrant to enter your house. And a gun fight? what? If you come out shooting at them first then your own lack of judgement does encourage this. But they can't just start shooting... police use lethal force when legal homeowner does nothing wrong??? WHAT?? can't see this happening..
    No....your rules DON'T "trump" theirs. Each situation is highly dependent upon the attendant facts, of course....but to think that you are all-powerful just because you are on your property is a fallacy, and one that could get you injured or killed. You may be right, in the end, but you may also be dead. Legal arguments are for courtrooms, not front porches. The constitutional system that was given to us by the founding fathers does not empower you to interpret the law based on your own beliefs. That's why we have courts.

    And by the way...there are several exceptions to the search warrant requirement. You might seek some education on our legal system, in order to be better informed about these things.
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