Cabellas is anti OC

This is a discussion on Cabellas is anti OC within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Vaquero 45 No....your rules DON'T "trump" theirs. Each situation is highly dependent upon the attendant facts, of course....but to think that you ...

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  1. #106
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaquero 45 View Post
    No....your rules DON'T "trump" theirs. Each situation is highly dependent upon the attendant facts, of course....but to think that you are all-powerful just because you are on your property is a fallacy, and one that could get you injured or killed. You may be right, in the end, but you may also be dead. Legal arguments are for courtrooms, not front porches. The constitutional system that was given to us by the founding fathers does not empower you to interpret the law based on your own beliefs. That's why we have courts.

    And by the way...there are several exceptions to the search warrant requirement. You might seek some education on our legal system, in order to be better informed about these things.
    Umm I'm pretty sure going off of what the copied post was the police are not going to shoot a unarmed homeowner. My Private Property my rules. I seen court cases ruled on this issue, I'm currently studying law. So next time you get your facts straight as I've seen the "system" and the rulings on these types before.
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  3. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickHenry View Post
    Contact the corporate office buddy.
    So, as posted above and to keep back on topic.
    With all due respect (and I'm NOT flaming anybody here including the Poster) I must ask B1780 this question. With all your frustrations and how you're venting to us (the Forum)
    are you going to contact the Corporate office of Cabela's? If so, my suggestion is to record the date, time, and names of all Managers/ Personel that were involved in the encounter. Next, let the Corporate Office know that you observed their Store policy, but was stopped by managment, and asked to conceal your handgun. Ask the Corprate Office to either mail or fax a letter of their Policy regarding OC and CC in their Stores (take note of the word STORES as it is a nationwide chain) This way, you'll either get a blanket Store Policy for their Chain, or a State by State Policy specifically targeting each of their Stores.
    Let Cabela's deal with it on their end. You'll get a reply in a timely fashon. until you do, I'd say either don't shop there, or cover up if asked again by the manager.
    As I stated earlier in a previous reply to this thread, NOTHING gets attention quicker, than a letter, or note (how do we rate card, as Cabela's has them at every Entrance/Exit of their stores) slipped in the slot or letter mailed to the Parent Office of the firm. Hope you get a good reply, and I hope their response is a positive one.
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  4. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1780 View Post
    ........and I am completely within the letter of the law to OC.....
    Not if they don't want you OCing - you were on private property. They can ask you to cover up or not carry period - at any time - regardless of posting on doors. I always respect other's rights too. I can vote with my $$$ if I do not like what they desire out of me the customer. If you were in my business and started with that attitude, I would have you arrested for trespassing. Calm down and take a deep breath next time.

  5. #109
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis;
    It is always a property rights issue when property owners and their agents ask an invitee (for example someone invited to the land for the purpose of business) to leave or comply.

    There are some factors as to if you must comply, but if the invitee is not being legally restrainted, and assuming the invitee is not denyed access on grounds of race, religion, gender, or ethnicity, the likely options for the invitee is to comply, leave after reasonable discourse, or face various potential penalties (from criminal to civil).

    As to if a judge, jury, etc. would ever find against the invitee, is a seperate issue. The only certainity is it is a property rights issue.
    No, the agent in this case is not authorized by the actual property owner to take the action he took. If they were operating according to company policy I would completely agree with you. In this case, absolutely not. I will say though, when asked to leave or cover up or whatever it is best to simply comply and then complain to corporate HQ later, just so we're clear that aspect is not what I am disputing.

  6. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1780 View Post
    Thats all fine and great. However I spoke to a few other people up the chain of command at Cabellas that very same day, and they informed me that Oc was fine as they follow the statues of the state regarding Oc or CC. So as I have stated numerous times, as have others their policy has not changed. I dont know of any other ways to put this. The manager was not correct.
    You just aren't seeing my point. You verified AFTER THE FACT that the manager was indeed wrong. In the moment, however, you have no idea what is actually policy. Therefore you have no choice but to comply with Cabela's duly appointed manager.

    AFTER THE FACT you did the correct thing and took matters up with corporate. This is what Old Vet and I think is the correct response and I applaude you for following up. But...

    Here is the point you are missing!

    IN THE MOMENT you had no way to verify that you were, in fact, correct (It's very likely that you could have been wrong). You huffed out of the store complaining about policy and stating you'll take your money elsewhere. You left that manager with a lasting impression that you are just a hotheaded jerk. The next time he sees someone like us walk in with a gun on his hip he will be thinking "Oh, boy. Not another one of these guys."

    Do you understand my point now?
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  7. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    But they are on your PRIVATE PROPERTY YOUR RULES TRUMP THEIRS... 2nd Amed rights They must have a search warrant to enter your house. And a gun fight? what? If you come out shooting at them first then your own lack of judgement does encourage this. But they can't just start shooting... police use lethal force when legal homeowner does nothing wrong??? WHAT?? can't see this happening..
    I'm not sure you really understand what was happening at the time. Those police officers weren't asking to come in and look for weapons. They WERE armed to the teeth and they WERE comming in and disarming citizens. Do you think all of those people just gave in to the police and left their families defensless during a crisis because the police said "Pretty please"?

    I'm getting the impression that you are not old enough to have a clear picture of what was happening at the time. I'm guessing you were still in high school at the time.

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  8. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    You just aren't seeing my point. You verified AFTER THE FACT that the manager was indeed wrong. In the moment, however, you have no idea what is actually policy. Therefore you have no choice but to comply with Cabela's duly appointed manager.

    AFTER THE FACT you did the correct thing and took matters up with corporate. This is what Old Vet and I think is the correct response and I applaude you for following up. But...

    Here is the point you are missing!

    IN THE MOMENT you had no way to verify that you were, in fact, correct (It's very likely that you could have been wrong). You huffed out of the store complaining about policy and stating you'll take your money elsewhere. You left that manager with a lasting impression that you are just a hotheaded jerk. The next time he sees someone like us walk in with a gun on his hip he will be thinking "Oh, boy. Not another one of these guys."

    Do you understand my point now?
    No, you are missing my point. I knew before I went there what there policy was, as I verified before I left. An aquaintance of mine works higher up for cabellas, and as of the day before I went to their store, there policy was that they follow state and local law regarding OC and CC. I understand what you are saying, and perhaps you did not know that I allready had knowledge of their policy before entering their store. As far as the manager is concerned, all I did was state my opinion on the situation at hand. MY guess is, that once corporate straightens him out, he will understand the errors in his thinking and wont make the same mistake again if he wants to stay employed. I hope this clears this aspect up once and for all. Thank you for your input.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid.

  9. #113
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    I'm not sure you really understand what was happening at the time. Those police officers weren't asking to come in and look for weapons. They WERE armed to the teeth and they WERE comming in and disarming citizens. Do you think all of those people just gave in to the police and left their families defensless during a crisis because the police said "Pretty please"?

    I'm getting the impression that you are not old enough to have a clear picture of what was happening at the time.
    Umm I have done enough background digging to know.. and yes I was old enough to remember... what you think I'm am a child? To the OP I think he worked with what he had, and I encourage others to send information packets or just simply state your concerns with corporations/legislators regarding gun rights.
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  10. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1780 View Post
    No, you are missing my point. I knew before I went there what there policy was, as I verified before I left. An aquaintance of mine works higher up for cabellas, and as of the day before I went to their store, there policy was that they follow state and local law regarding OC and CC. I understand what you are saying, and perhaps you did not know that I allready had knowledge of their policy before entering their store. As far as the manager is concerned, all I did was state my opinion on the situation at hand. MY guess is, that once corporate straightens him out, he will understand the errors in his thinking and wont make the same mistake again if he wants to stay employed. I hope this clears this aspect up once and for all. Thank you for your input.
    I very kindly ask this moron why he would like me to conceal, as I explain to him that it is unnecessary as they are not posted. I am completely following the letter of the law. He informs me that there are signs everywhere throughout the store that state that the firearm must be concealed. At this point I am pissed, seeing as this dope has no clue regarding the laws. I ask him to show me the sign that states this, simply because I allready know that it does not exist. Walking to the exit, without the items I intended to purchase, I see the store manager. I explain to him what his retard employee has asked me to do. I want to clarify Cabellas position on this before I will ever spend another dime in their store. I am told by this *** hat that if I want to shop in there store the firearm must be concealed. At this point I am upset about this event out of mostly principle.
    No the signs did not say that the firearms had to be concealed at all. This is why I am uspset. The words I used in my post were me simply venting here. I understand that it is private property but they are not posted, and there are no signs stating that I had to CC.
    My point exactly. If they want me to know the rules, that are clearly different then what is posted on the door they need to make them clear. I don't have a crystal ball. I guess what made me the most angry is that the sign on the door says one thing, but the employee and manager seem to have their own opinions. I have been to the othe store in Owatonna, MN and have OC'd without any problems at all. I called their manager this afternoon and he said that it is corporate policy to follow the rules of the state, and that OC in their store was just fine. So explain to me the difference from store to store that is all part of the same corp.
    In bold I highlighted some of your earlier posts. You must think we at DC are foolish enough to just go along when someone keeps changing their story. Your previous posts show that you did not know about their policy. You were informed of their policy after you called them. It's all there in black and white.

    Also if you know so much about the companies inner workings you might know that the name is Cabela's with one L not two.

    I don't believe you are telling the truth. Enough said.
    Last edited by atctimmy; June 1st, 2010 at 11:31 AM. Reason: content
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  11. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    Umm I have done enough background digging to know.. and yes I was old enough to remember... what you think I'm am a child? To the OP I think he worked with what he had, and I encourage others to send information packets or just simply state your concerns with corporations/legislators regarding gun rights.

    Yes I think you were a child at the time.

    I'm putting you at age 22 now. My guess is you were 16ish during Katrina and you were a sophomore or junior in high school.

    No disrespect intended, I just don't think you have a clear picture of what happened. Most highschoolers would not have understood those events as they unfolded.
    Last edited by atctimmy; June 1st, 2010 at 11:35 AM.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  12. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightsonge View Post
    Hm, just a thought, Say you're asked to leave by the manager for carrying either open or concealed, Contact the corporate office, are assured that is not correct policy, get it in writing from the corporate headquarters, then have it happen again in that store? or worse, have them not say a word but simply call the police on you as possibly having a firearm on you. Do you leave on the second incident with a guarantee from corporate in writing in your pocket stating that your actions are permitted? If the cops are simply called because the manager remembered asking you to leave a couple of weeks ago would the cops arrest you? escort you from the premises? ban you from the store on the manager's word even though you can PROVE that his actions are in violation of corporate policy?
    Just curious on everyone's thoughts
    Here's my experience with Walmart. Assistant Mgr told me, "If he had seen me walk in with that (G19) on he would have told me to leave." Conversation ensued that went nowhere. Called and emailed Corporate. I received a call from one of the many "managers" at the store. Not the top manager, I would later find out. She did not know NC law. She told me she would call back. She did not. Called Corporate again. Got a call from the head Asset Protection Mgr. I was told I was welcome to carry there OC or CC. They follow state law. I did not enter the store this happened in till I talked to the Asset Protection Mgr.

    He told me he would reeducate the Asst. Mgr. 2 weeks ago I was OC'ing in the store and walked right by the Asst. Mgr. in question. He followed me around the store a bit, not very secretive about it. He also never spoke to me, you know the usual "welcome to Walmart." That was it. Once I got with the right person the issue was taken care of. In the mean time I have taken my weekly shopping elsewhere, to the tune of about $500-600 a month.
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  13. #117
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    What I don't like about this thread is that the OPs story keeps morphing into something slightly different in response to follow-up comments and opinions by other members.

    It should be noted that many forum members will click on a thread and they will only read the original post and then they will post their respective comments based on the information contained in the original post without reading through the entire thread which is their prerogative.

    That is causing exactly the same comments to be posted numerous times.

    This thread may be nearing closure unless there are some forthcoming new revelations real soon because at this point in time it's running 'round in circles.

  14. #118
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    Peckman, we agree, we can understand the OPs venting, believe the manager acted wrong, and it would be best to simply comply or walk away and take it up with corporate later. You don't like the use of the term property rights, I'm stating it does not matter, it comes down to property rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by peckman28 View Post
    No, the agent in this case is not authorized by the actual property owner to take the action he took. If they were operating according to company policy I would completely agree with you. In this case, absolutely not. I will say though, when asked to leave or cover up or whatever it is best to simply comply and then complain to corporate HQ later, just so we're clear that aspect is not what I am disputing.
    LE is not around to interrupt some retail corporate policy. Since the land owner would not be on sight, the agent of owner (maybe any store employee) is assumed to have the authority (in almost every situation). The invitee is to comply, leave after reasonable discourse, or face various potential penalties (from criminal to civil) because LE can enforce laws (like propert rights) but only store personal can enforce or make exceptions to store policy (LE nor the invitee have that authority, in the vast majority of situations, and such issues would be take up later as part of a lawsuit).

    You are overstressing corporate policy. It does not legally limit the authorty of an agent of the property owner. As an invitee you can be asked to comply or leave at any time, without cause (of couse, there are exceptions, as I have listed in past posts). A property owner (or agent) has right on their property, to exclude others from the property (less some crime, easement, etc).

    While law (such as property rights) can compel or prohibit behaviors policy merely guides actions toward those that are most likely to achieve a desired outcome, but is not generally binding unless for example a return on a purchase (even then, most likely the LE can't force the return, that is something the LE will tell you you must take up in court).

    You may have some recourse later (sue for some damages), but no matter how you cut it, it is a property rights issue because policy differs from laws that are enforcable by LE.
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  15. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    You may have some recourse later (sue for some damages), but no matter how you cut it, it is a property rights issue because policy differs from laws that are enforcable by LE.
    For me, I'm not arguing that Cabela's can or cannot set any rules it want's. And there is ambiguity in what an employee can or cannot do in the name of the company. ie, interpreting the policy. My only concern is that we are getting bogged down in the property rights idea. Which to me seems entirely separate from the employee being wrong on company policy. In this case the employee needs to be retrained on what policy is. If it were a true property rights issue we would be talking about boycotting and mass emails. Similar to the Harris Teeter, Kroger, and Marriot issues that have recently come up. Instead, here we should focus on retraining one employee.

    We may just be seeing the same thing in a bit of a different light.
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    Heres the corp. policy.
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