Off-duty LEO in Texas

This is a discussion on Off-duty LEO in Texas within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; There isn't anything in Texas law that says we have to conceal also isn't anything about requiring a badge to be displayed however, my dept ...

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Thread: Off-duty LEO in Texas

  1. #16
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    Array 64zebra's Avatar
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    There isn't anything in Texas law that says we have to conceal
    also isn't anything about requiring a badge to be displayed

    however, my dept has a rule that if we OC we have to have our badge clipped on the belt next to the holster

    and thats for the entire state, we're not limited to just the jurisdiction of our department, the federal LEOSA is irrelevant for a Texas Peace Officer within the state
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  3. #17
    Member Array aedinius's Avatar
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    Yeah, I figure it would be better just to CC or have the badge visible. He did neither. Thanks for the input!
    Knowing is half the battle.

  4. #18
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    My philosophy on open carry is this: if you are in the Quickie-mart, getting a super-huge gulp and you are openly carrying, and someone rushed the store with their 12 gauge and, upon entering the store, saw your gun, you will most likely be the first to go. Having said that, I am totally for open carry, but I believe that legally concealed is better. To me, that one gun hidden on your person is worth three guns carried in plain sight when the doo-doo hits the fan. Just my $.02.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDshooter View Post
    My philosophy on open carry is this: if you are in the Quickie-mart, getting a super-huge gulp and you are openly carrying, and someone rushed the store with their 12 gauge and, upon entering the store, saw your gun, you will most likely be the first to go. Having said that, I am totally for open carry, but I believe that legally concealed is better. To me, that one gun hidden on your person is worth three guns carried in plain sight when the doo-doo hits the fan. Just my $.02.
    You may consider forming opinions based on facts not myth. The scenario you IMAGINE has never ever occurred in five hundred years. Feel free to do some research you will not find one single verifiable instance of anyone EVER being targeted because they open carried. You are a 1,000 more likely to be hit by satellite debri falling out of the sky than being targeted because you OC. You will find verifiable evidence of crimes that were prevented because someone open carried. Personally I carry for self defense not so I can blast the bad guy. So a gun fight avoided beats killing the BG any day.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedinius View Post
    Yeah, I figure it would be better just to CC or have the badge visible. He did neither. Thanks for the input!
    Wouldn't it be better for everyone LEO or not to carry open or concealed as they see fit. Than it would be a non issue
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  7. #21
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    Who says that the one OC wasn't on duty?
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedinius View Post
    At lunch with some coworkers the other day, I saw a group of guys walk in (most them screamed cop in the way they walked and dressed), and I could tell a few of them were carrying under their shirt. Then one guy walked with his full size Glock 22 openly displayed. I couldn't see a badge.

    I know LEOSA allows them to carry concealed, but I was a bit shocked about the open carry the guy was doing.
    The law allows us to open carry. I think I detect a hint of jealousy thus the whining.
    Proud houlder of a Texas Open Carry License.

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    You may consider forming opinions based on facts not myth. The scenario you IMAGINE has never ever occurred in five hundred years. Feel free to do some research you will not find one single verifiable instance of anyone EVER being targeted because they open carried. You are a 1,000 more likely to be hit by satellite debri falling out of the sky than being targeted because you OC. You will find verifiable evidence of crimes that were prevented because someone open carried. Personally I carry for self defense not so I can blast the bad guy. So a gun fight avoided beats killing the BG any day.
    Targeted because of open carry? Perhaps.
    Crime deterred because of open carry? Nope.
    Man Legally Carrying Gun Robbed at Gunpoint | Newsradio 620 - Milwaukee, Wisconsin News, Talk, Sports, Weather | Local Headlines
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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by WC145 View Post
    Other than the paper making the assumption that MAYBE he was targeted because he open carried. I see no evidence that was the case. With out the assumption all I see is a man with a gun was robbed. People that carry concealed get robbed as well. Having a gun in and of itself does not make anyone any safer. It could have just as easily be a case where the robber was not even aware the victim had a gun on him. More info is needed. That said it is possible that he was targeted so I will need to change my stance a bit. To in five hundred years there has only been one case where a person might have been targeted because they OC'ed.
    As far as crime being prevented by OC the most recent story I am aware of is Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw. There are many more if you do an honest search.

    I would be happy to pursue this if you wish via PM as this is getting awfully close to debating the pros and cons of OC contrary to forum rules.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Wouldn't it be better for everyone LEO or not to carry open or concealed as they see fit. Than it would be a non issue
    You make way to much sense.............

  12. #26
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    Maybe I miss the point of all this, I have been all over North America with Firearms Instructors, mostly LEOs but not all, when a group walk together, I personally, and I have never been a LEO (just trained many hundreds of them) have seen guns worn, carried, slung, in every way known to man, what is the problem?

    A gun in a holster, so what, was he arrested? No? again so what.

  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    You may consider forming opinions based on facts not myth. The scenario you IMAGINE has never ever occurred in five hundred years. Feel free to do some research you will not find one single verifiable instance of anyone EVER being targeted because they open carried. You are a 1,000 more likely to be hit by satellite debri falling out of the sky than being targeted because you OC. You will find verifiable evidence of crimes that were prevented because someone open carried. Personally I carry for self defense not so I can blast the bad guy. So a gun fight avoided beats killing the BG any day.
    quote:
    You may consider forming opinions based on facts not myth....

    WC145 points out a recent case and now you say it's maybe 'once in 500 years'.

    I'm really impressed you have such a command of all that's happened in the last 500 years as it pertains to crime with guns.

    Do you really think no armed guard in a bank has ever been targeted by bank robbers in their pursuit of a heist?

    Do you really think no LEO has ever been targeted inthe last 500 years by a BG in their mission to carry out a crime.

    Or that there's not been another instance of a BG getting the drop on a person that was open carrying for whatever nefarious reason they might've had. I'd be willing to bet it happened numerous times here in the 'Wild West'. But I've no doubt it's happened since, here and elsewhere.

    It defies logic and frankly, it's a claim that's a little hard to believe, at least by me...


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  14. #28
    Senior Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Other than the paper making the assumption that MAYBE he was targeted because he open carried. I see no evidence that was the case. With out the assumption all I see is a man with a gun was robbed. People that carry concealed get robbed as well. Having a gun in and of itself does not make anyone any safer. It could have just as easily be a case where the robber was not even aware the victim had a gun on him. More info is needed. That said it is possible that he was targeted so I will need to change my stance a bit. To in five hundred years there has only been one case where a person might have been targeted because they OC'ed.
    As far as crime being prevented by OC the most recent story I am aware of is Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw. There are many more if you do an honest search.

    I would be happy to pursue this if you wish via PM as this is getting awfully close to debating the pros and cons of OC contrary to forum rules.
    My only point was to accept your challenge and find an example, it wasn't exactly what you asked for but time was short. Regardless, the guy was OC and got robbed, so having a gun on your belt is not always the deterrent that supporters of open carry like to think and common sense tells you that in a violent armed encounter the person that is obviously armed will be the BG's first target. Also, there's plenty of examples of plainclothes or off duty cops being killed once they were found out, what makes you think that the same won't happen to someone OC in a similar situation?

    That being said, I don't care how anybody carries as long as it's legal. The ramifications of your chosen method of carry are yours to deal with, not mine.


    Maybe I miss the point of all this, I have been all over North America with Firearms Instructors, mostly LEOs but not all, when a group walk together, I personally, and I have never been a LEO (just trained many hundreds of them) have seen guns worn, carried, slung, in every way known to man, what is the problem?
    Excellent point. One thing to keep in mind is that a LEO, particularly when on the job anywhere or off-duty in his home state, generally doesn't have to worry about how he carries. They are authorized to be armed and usually the regs are pretty lax on how they go about it, so, right or wrong, they may be more casual about being armed than a non-LEO with a concealed carry permit. I know that I am guilty of that from time to time, depending on my surroundings.
    “Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WC145 View Post
    My only point was to accept your challenge and find an example,
    Point in fact is that you did not meet that challenge. Good effort though. You did not provide evidence that anyone was targeted solely because they OC'ed. Instead, you provided an example of a man that OC'ed that was robbed. I never said or implied that never happened or could not happen. My statement is there is no verifiable evidence of anyone ever being targeted BECAUSE they OC'ed. Without further information your example is no different than saying because the victim had red hair he was targeted because he had red hair.

    There is nothing in the story that confirms that the robber even knew the victim OC'ed or was armed in any way prior to the robbery. Was he even robbed of his gun? What was taken? We do not know. What the story does tell us is a man was robbed and he open carried a gun, period. The information provided does not let us know that was any more relevant to his being robbed than that he also wore pants shoes and a shirt. Can we conclude that he was targeted because he wore pants? Than why assume he was targeted because he OC'ed? Because the media makes the ass-uption that it is possible that was why he was targeted? From the your posts I surmise that you are intelligent enough to know that the media assumptions, conclusions and perception of reality are worth less than a pile of manure. So I doubt you base your conclusion on their assumptions. Yet, even the media did not say that he was targeted because he OC'ed they limited their comment to it being a possibility.

    Citing that police officers and security guards are targeted is not the same as civilians that OC. Police and security are targeted for other reasons than that they open carry. They would be targeted if they carried concealed. How they carry in fact is irrelevant to why they are targeted.

    That you will be targeted myth is one created by the brady bunch as part of their campaign of misinformation. One unsupported by fact. We spent months on this forum on the Open Carry Concerns thread trying to find evidence that there is a basis for anti self defense fanatic myth, that OC will have you targeted and by association endanger innocents around you. One of the myths that they tried to use in their campaign against Starbucks recently. After months of research by forum members both for and opposed to Open Carry not one single instance was found. If it has ever happened there would be some verifiable evidence of it. None was found. You may want to read the thread as it does have some insightful commentary.

    I personally do not parrot anti self defense fanatics propaganda. I am not an anti, why would I repeat their lies for them? I'd ask that if members here are pro 2A, that they too consider not repeating brady bunch lies and not support their campaign of misinformation. Base their posts on verifiable fact not assuptions myths or lies.

    Your link does provide evidence that carrying a gun does not make you safe or immune from attack. That we are in full agreement on. I would never say differently. No method of carry makes anyone safe or immune from being victimized.

    In response to your challenge I do believe that I did in fact provide verifiable evidence of OC'ing preventing a crime.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  16. #30
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    People with guns NEVER targeted... Saltellite debris... Really?

    snopes.com: Gun Shop Robber

    I find it extremely difficult to believe that NO PERSON in the USA that was totin' a roscoe in "open carry" fashion was NEVER targeted and robbed for the sole purpose of that thief obtaining that firearm.

    Just because something does not pop up on a Google or other internet search does NOT mean that IT never happenned!

    I work for a police department that was established in 1904 that until recently NEVER released any arrest or crime information to the public via newspapers or any other media.

    I guess all those perps that I had knock down drag out fights, were all figments of my imagination, right?

    And I DO NOT believe that I work for the only department that had that same philosophy in regards to crime reporting to the media in the entire USA!

    As far as firearms being around for 500 years, they were, but not anywhere in North America! Columbus discovered the New World in 1492, and Jamestown (Virginia) was settled in 1607. And the birthdate of the good 'ole USA declared independence in 1776, albeit no where near 500 years ago...

    But what do I know??? I don't have red hair, although I do wear pants from time to time, and have yet to be hit by satellite debris and/or robbed while armed or unarmed.

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