Off-duty LEO in Texas - Page 3

Off-duty LEO in Texas

This is a discussion on Off-duty LEO in Texas within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by LongRider In response to your challenge I do believe that I did in fact provide verifiable evidence of OC'ing preventing a crime. ...

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Thread: Off-duty LEO in Texas

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    In response to your challenge I do believe that I did in fact provide verifiable evidence of OC'ing preventing a crime.
    Ummm... I didn't issue a challenge, I don't care enough to do that.

  2. #32
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDshooter View Post
    My philosophy on open carry is this: if you are in the Quickie-mart, getting a super-huge gulp and you are openly carrying, and someone rushed the store with their 12 gauge and, upon entering the store, saw your gun, you will most likely be the first to go. Having said that, I am totally for open carry, but I believe that legally concealed is better. To me, that one gun hidden on your person is worth three guns carried in plain sight when the doo-doo hits the fan. Just my $.02.
    I prefer a world where the BG runs in and everybody has an OC firearm. Kind of like the BG who tries to rob the cop bar, ya know?
    xoolo likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  3. #33
    Member Array Scouse's Avatar
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    That did happen, the two Mafioso, driving to LA stopped in a small road house, needed some cash!

    Pointing the two pistols they carried, told the customers, put your wallets on the table... 1st went the badge case, then the LARGE pistols were shown! They left! Bo one hurt.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array dripster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    LEOSA allows you to carry the weapons you have qualified with, does not state concealed or open. I myself carry cc as I don't want to attract any undue attention.
    Just a clarification. You do not have to be certified on the weapon you are carrying under LEOSA. I have one gun on my badge and id which I qualified with at work. I also have several other guns registered to me on my pistol permit. I can carry any gun I want under LEOSA. Only problem being my job is not going to indemnify me if I pop someone with a gun I haven't qualified with(not like they would anyway).
    5lima30ret likes this.
    One more step and it's on!

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wybulldog19 View Post
    snopes.com: Gun Shop Robber

    I find it extremely difficult to believe that NO PERSON in the USA that was totin' a roscoe in "open carry" fashion was NEVER targeted and robbed for the sole purpose of that thief obtaining that firearm.
    Perfect. Thank you. This is EXACTLY the kind of tactic I have come to expect from anti's. I in fact would not be the least bit surprised to find this example on Brady Bunch's website as evidence of how open carriers are targeted because they open carry. When in fact this is a story of an idiot who robbed a gun store. A LEO present in the store at the time of the robbery and a store clerk killed the idiot. There is not one single mention of anyone open carrying.

    Yet here we are. The anti's and wybulldog19 waving it about proudly exclaiming here is an example of someone being targeted because they Open Carried. Forget the FACT that it was a gun store with NO mention of Open Carry but here is the evidence that OC will get you targeted none the less.

    I personally do not understand how anti self defense fanatics or volunteer victims process information. Forget that it has never happened forget that there is zero valid verifiable information to support the assumption. If they can imagine it is possible, it must be real. So they believe it and present it as fact using unrelated information to support their belief. Like this robbery story exposes the dangers of OC even though OC has no part in the story and OC is not even mentioned. Just as wybulldog19 imagines OC must have caused someone to have been targeted so it must be true after all he imagined it and here his robbery story proves it.

    NOT

    Personally I prefer to base my decisions on verifiable facts. You of course are free to do as you please.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  6. #36
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant48 View Post
    With regard to a Texas Peace Officer carrying in Texas, LEOSA is irrelevant.

    As long as a peace officer has his/her LEO credentials on their person, they can open or concealed carry, on or off duty. Displaying a badge while open-carrying is a good idea, although I'm not aware of a Texas law that requires it. LE agency policies may vary.
    +1.

    Texas peace officers are not required by state law to keep their firearms concealed, whether on or off the clock. (Texas peace officers are always on duty, unless legally intoxicated.) Now, their employing agency may well have guidelines on the subject, as does mine; I am required by policy to keep handguns concealed under most circumstances if not in uniform, and am expected to display my official ID, visible to the front, if my weapon has to be displayed. Badge? I don't need to stinkin' badge. Actually, so many impersonators have badges, a badge alone is next to worthless, especially as my PD's badge looks so generic. I don't always bother to carry it.

    Anyone who has never before seen Texas peace officers carrying openly while in plainclothes has not spent much time in rural Texas eating establishments. Even in city centers, I have seen Rangers and TABC agents carrying openly; almost invariably, their badge was visible to the front, and a handcuff pouch to the rear. Of course, Rangers have that look about them, making them identifiable from a block away.
    Last edited by Rexster; July 1st, 2010 at 01:44 PM. Reason: fixed a chopped-off sentence

  7. #37
    Member Array Night Flight's Avatar
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    Personally, I see some people on here that like to argue and see who knows more than the other guy. Not worth the hard feelings and effort that is put into it. Kinda nice to see our members getting along and having positive attitudes and not challenging someones opinion for the sake of an argument. That said, I ain't gonna open carry. LOL

  8. #38
    Ex Member Array waitin66's Avatar
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    Easy to forget that Texas is has such restrictive gun laws, because it is so contrary to the image the rest of us have of Texas.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedinius View Post
    At lunch with some coworkers the other day, I saw a group of guys walk in (most them screamed cop in the way they walked and dressed), and I could tell a few of them were carrying under their shirt. Then one guy walked with his full size Glock 22 openly displayed. I couldn't see a badge.

    I know LEOSA allows them to carry concealed, but I was a bit shocked about the open carry the guy was doing.
    RETIRED TEXAS PEACE OFFICERS ARE EXEMPT FROM 46.02 AND 46.03 OF THE PENAL CODE (unlawful carry of weapons and places weapons prohibited.

    He likely did not have a badge because he is no longer a peace officer, he is retired. He can open carry because he is exempt from the law just as a regular peace officer is.


    Here is the statue:

    TEXAS PENAL CODE

    Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.
    (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:
    (1) peace officers or special investigators under Article 2.122, Code of Criminal Procedure, and neither section prohibits a peace officer or special investigator from carrying a weapon in this state, including in an establishment in this state serving the public, regardless of whether the peace officer or special investigator is engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's or investigator's duties while carrying the weapon;
    (2) parole officers and neither section prohibits an officer from carrying a weapon in this state if the officer is:
    (A) engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's duties while carrying the weapon; and
    (B) in compliance with policies and procedures adopted by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice regarding the possession of a weapon by an officer while on duty;
    (3) community supervision and corrections department officers appointed or employed under Section 76.004, Government Code, and neither section prohibits an officer from carrying a weapon in this state if the officer is:
    (A) engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's duties while carrying the weapon; and
    (B) authorized to carry a weapon under Section 76.0051, Government Code;
    (4) an active judicial officer as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code, who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code;
    (5) an honorably retired peace officer, qualified retired law enforcement officer, federal criminal investigator, or former reserve law enforcement officer who holds a certificate of proficiency issued under Section 1701.357, Occupations Code, and is carrying a photo identification that is issued by a federal, state, or local law enforcement agency, as applicable, and that verifies that the officer is:
    (A) an honorably retired peace officer;
    (B) a qualified retired law enforcement officer;
    (C) a federal criminal investigator; or
    (D) a former reserve law enforcement officer who has served in that capacity not less than a total of 15 years with one or more state or local law enforcement agencies;

    (6) a district attorney, criminal district attorney, county attorney, or municipal attorney who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code;
    (7) an assistant district attorney, assistant criminal district attorney, or assistant county attorney who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code;
    (8) a bailiff designated by an active judicial officer as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code, who is:
    (A) licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Chapter 411, Government Code; and
    (B) engaged in escorting the judicial officer; or
    (9) a juvenile probation officer who is authorized to carry a firearm under Section 142.006, Human Resources Code.
    (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
    (1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section 437.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal institution;
    (2) is traveling;
    (3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, motor vehicle, or watercraft, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;
    (4) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas Private Security Board, if the person is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as an officer commissioned under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, or is traveling to or from the person's place of assignment and is wearing the officer's uniform and carrying the officer's weapon in plain view;
    (5) acts as a personal protection officer and carries the person's security officer commission and personal protection officer authorization, if the person:
    (A) is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as a personal protection officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, or is traveling to or from the person's place of assignment; and
    (B) is either:
    (i) wearing the uniform of a security officer, including any uniform or apparel described by Section 1702.323(d), Occupations Code, and carrying the officer's weapon in plain view; or
    (ii) not wearing the uniform of a security officer and carrying the officer's weapon in a concealed manner;
    (6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun;
    (7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises; or
    (8) is a student in a law enforcement class engaging in an activity required as part of the class, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity and the person is:
    (A) on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted; or
    (B) en route between those premises and the person's residence and is carrying the weapon unloaded.
    (c) The provision of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a club does not apply to a noncommissioned security guard at an institution of higher education who carries a nightstick or similar club, and who has undergone 15 hours of training in the proper use of the club, including at least seven hours of training in the use of the club for nonviolent restraint. For the purposes of this subsection, "nonviolent restraint" means the use of reasonable force, not intended and not likely to inflict bodily injury.
    (d) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a firearm or carrying of a club do not apply to a public security officer employed by the adjutant general under Section 437.053, Government Code, in performance of official duties or while traveling to or from a place of duty.
    (e) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of an illegal knife do not apply to an individual carrying a bowie knife or a sword used in a historical demonstration or in a ceremony in which the knife or sword is significant to the performance of the ceremony.
    (f) Section 46.03(a)(6) does not apply to a person who possesses a firearm or club while in the actual discharge of official duties as:
    (1) a member of the armed forces or state military forces, as defined by Section 437.001, Government Code; or
    (2) an employee of a penal institution.
    (g) The provisions of Sections 46.02 and 46.03 prohibiting the possession or carrying of a club do not apply to an animal control officer who holds a certificate issued under Section 829.006, Health and Safety Code, and who possesses or carries an instrument used specifically for deterring the bite of an animal while the officer is in the performance of official duties under the Health and Safety Code or is traveling to or from a place of duty.
    (h) Repealed by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 693, Sec. 3(1), eff. September 1, 2007.
    (i) Repealed by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 693, Sec. 3(2), eff. September 1, 2007.
    (j) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a handgun do not apply to an individual who carries a handgun as a participant in a historical reenactment performed in accordance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission.


    Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
    (1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
    (2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
    (a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
    (1) the handgun is in plain view; or
    (2) the person is:
    (A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating;
    (B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
    (C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.
    (a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.
    (a-3) For purposes of this section, "watercraft" means any boat, motorboat, vessel, or personal watercraft, other than a seaplane on water, used or capable of being used for transportation on water.
    (b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
    (c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.

  10. #40
    Member Array wethepeople's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDshooter View Post
    My philosophy on open carry is this: if you are in the Quickie-mart, getting a super-huge gulp and you are openly carrying, and someone rushed the store with their 12 gauge and, upon entering the store, saw your gun, you will most likely be the first to go. Having said that, I am totally for open carry, but I believe that legally concealed is better. To me, that one gun hidden on your person is worth three guns carried in plain sight when the doo-doo hits the fan. Just my $.02.
    Umm, BTW, people are targeted for several different things, watch, OCed cell phone, car, money, ect. which has happened a whole lot more than someones firearm, which brings back another question. How many CCiers have had their firearms taken after the fact they were targeted because the BG thought they were a soft target? HMM, Sounds like some people will believe anything that they hear or read. I have already heard all the arguments, all the falsehoods and empty myths. I OC regular, not saying it cant happen, but I had to roll my eyes once again at this one.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array RemMod597's Avatar
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    Hope ya didn't get a hernia digging this thread out of the layers of time.

    Welcome to the forum JonathanSteiner.
    Have a look around and stop by the New Members area and introduce yourself to the fine folk here at DC.

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array 5lima30ret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dripster View Post
    Just a clarification. You do not have to be certified on the weapon you are carrying under LEOSA. I have one gun on my badge and id which I qualified with at work. I also have several other guns registered to me on my pistol permit. I can carry any gun I want under LEOSA. Only problem being my job is not going to indemnify me if I pop someone with a gun I haven't qualified with(not like they would anyway).
    Your LEOSA permit specifies whether you qualified with a revolver and/ or auto not what specific gun you qualified with. For example I qualified last week using my Glock so I am GTG carrying any auto however I did not qualify with a revolver so I cannot carry a revolver under my LEOSA permit. My Alabama retired LEO permit does allow me to carry any handgun including revolvers and autos. Hope that clears up what can sometimes be muddy waters
    Retired Police Lieutenant, Former MH-53 Pave Low Gunner, Retired USAF Reserve, Glock Armorer, AL Retired LEO Pistol Permit, NC CWP, LEOSA Qualified
    Second generation American, Third generation Legionnaire
    "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" Phil 4:13

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