Off-duty LEO in Texas

Off-duty LEO in Texas

This is a discussion on Off-duty LEO in Texas within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; At lunch with some coworkers the other day, I saw a group of guys walk in (most them screamed cop in the way they walked ...

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Thread: Off-duty LEO in Texas

  1. #1
    Member Array aedinius's Avatar
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    Off-duty LEO in Texas

    At lunch with some coworkers the other day, I saw a group of guys walk in (most them screamed cop in the way they walked and dressed), and I could tell a few of them were carrying under their shirt. Then one guy walked with his full size Glock 22 openly displayed. I couldn't see a badge.

    I know LEOSA allows them to carry concealed, but I was a bit shocked about the open carry the guy was doing.
    Knowing is half the battle.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedinius View Post
    At lunch with some coworkers the other day, I saw a group of guys walk in (most them screamed cop in the way they walked and dressed), and I could tell a few of them were carrying under their shirt. Then one guy walked with his full size Glock 22 openly displayed. I couldn't see a badge.

    I know LEOSA allows them to carry concealed, but I was a bit shocked about the open carry the guy was doing.
    LEOSA allows off-duty cops to carry concealed almost anywhere (including across state lines), but mostly comes into play when they're outside of their jurisdiction. Since most, if not all, states allow for LEO's to carry off-duty within the state where they work (I don't know of any state laws that require them to carry concealed), the method of carry would be dictated by agency policies. If he was a local guy he was probably going by whatever his agency says he can/can't do, nothing to do with LEOSA.

    I flew to Texas on personal business Tuesday and returned home yesterday. I took a handgun and carried concealed while there under the auspices of LEOSA. I just needed to have my ID and badge with me.
    Last edited by WC145; June 3rd, 2010 at 01:51 PM. Reason: added "within the state where they work"
    “Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”

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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    LEOSA allows you to carry the weapons you have qualified with, does not state concealed or open. I myself carry cc as I don't want to attract any undue attention.
    Hiram25
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    Retired DE Trooper, SA XD40 SC, S&W 2" Airweight
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    LEOSA allows you to carry the weapons you have qualified with, does not state concealed or open. I myself carry cc as I don't want to attract any undue attention.
    LEOSA specifically allows for concealed carry, NOT open carry. In fact, the title of 18 U.S.C. Subsection 926B reads: "Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers" and 926C reads: "Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers".

    Also, it doesn't specify what weapon a qualified LEO can carry. Here's the text:

    18 U.S.C. – Crimes and Criminal Procedure
    Part I – Crimes
    Chapter 44 – Firearms

    §926B Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers

    (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual
    who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may
    carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to
    subsection (b).
    (b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that –
    (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their
    property; or
    (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation,
    building, base, or park.
    (c) As used in this section, the term “qualified law enforcement officer” means an employee of a governmental
    agency who –
    (1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of,
    or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;
    (2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;
    (3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;
    (4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the
    use of a firearm;
    (5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
    (6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
    (d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental
    agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.
    (e) As used in this section, the term “firearm” does not include –
    (1) any machinegun (as defined in §5845 of the National Firearms Act);
    (2) any firearm silencer (as defined in §921 of this title); and
    (3) any destructive device (as defined in §921 of this title).

    §926C Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers

    (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual
    who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d)
    may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject
    to subsection (b).
    (b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that –
    (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their
    property; or
    (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation,
    building, base, or park.
    (c) As used in this section, the term “qualified retired law enforcement officer” means an individual who –
    (1) retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, other than for
    reasons of mental instability;
    (2) before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection,
    investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory
    powers of arrest;
    (3)
    (A) before such retirement, was regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15
    years or more; or
    (B) retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such
    service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;
    (4) has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency;
    (5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State’s standards
    for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms;
    (6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
    (7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
    (d) The identification required by this subsection is –
    (1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law
    enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the
    individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the
    standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry
    a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or
    (2)
    (A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a
    law enforcement officer; and
    (B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual
    has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm,
    been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training
    and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed
    firearm.
    (e) As used in this section, the term “firearm” does not include –
    (1) any machinegun (as defined in §5845 of the National Firearms Act);
    (2) any firearm silencer (as defined in §921 of this title); and
    (3) a destructive device (as defined in §921 of this title).
    “Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”

  5. #5
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    LEOSA allows you to carry the weapons you have qualified with, does not state concealed or open. I myself carry cc as I don't want to attract any undue attention.
    LEOSA only addresses concealed carry and makes no distinction for active duty LEO's in regards to being qualified with said weapon.

    My agency doesn't mandate, nor make allowances for qualifying with an off duty weapon yet I am legal to carry it under LEOSA off duty. That pretty much leaves what I carry off duty up to me. Some days it's a revolver, other days a "bottomfeeder".

    Biker

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    LEOSA is not about current LEOs carrying in their own jurisdictions. They don't need a federal law to allow them to do that.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

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    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedinius View Post
    Then one guy walked with his full size Glock 22 openly displayed. I couldn't see a badge.

    I know LEOSA allows them to carry concealed, but I was a bit shocked about the open carry the guy was doing.
    Sorry what is there to be shocked about? LEO or not LEOSA or not why is this a problem? Are you anti second amendment?
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Sorry what is there to be shocked about? LEO or not LEOSA or not why is this a problem? Are you anti second amendment?
    I think what he means is open carry is illegal in Texas.

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    Member Array ncsteveh's Avatar
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    Very well could been a detective on duty, just because you can't see a badge does not mean that there is not one hanging around his neck.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    I think what he means is open carry is illegal in Texas.
    OIC that makes sense. Easy to forget that Texas is has such restrictive gun laws, because it is so contrary to the image the rest of us have of Texas.
    Last edited by LongRider; June 11th, 2010 at 11:41 AM.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  11. #11
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    In this state if you open carry you must display your badge withing 3 inches of your firearm.

    It is possible that the man with the gun was assisting the officers in some capacity but was not an officer himself so he didnt have a badge to display.

    We use non-leo people all the time for various projects and tell them to arm themselves. As long as they are with us, there are no issues.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedinius View Post
    At lunch with some coworkers the other day, I saw a group of guys walk in (most them screamed cop in the way they walked and dressed), and I could tell a few of them were carrying under their shirt. Then one guy walked with his full size Glock 22 openly displayed. I couldn't see a badge.

    I know LEOSA allows them to carry concealed, but I was a bit shocked about the open carry the guy was doing.
    Where'd you eat lunch??? Man, I miss Bill Miller and Ruby's!

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WC145 View Post
    LEOSA specifically allows for concealed carry, NOT open carry. In fact, the title of 18 U.S.C. Subsection 926B reads: "Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers" and 926C reads: "Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers".

    Also, it doesn't specify what weapon a qualified LEO can carry. Here's the text:
    I stand corrected!
    Hiram25
    You can educate ignorance, you can't fix stupid
    Retired DE Trooper, SA XD40 SC, S&W 2" Airweight
    dukalmighty & Pure Kustom Black Ops Pro "Trooper" Holsters, DE CCDW and LEOSA Permits, Vietnam Vet 68-69 Pleiku

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Grant48's Avatar
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    With regard to a Texas Peace Officer carrying in Texas, LEOSA is irrelevant.

    As long as a peace officer has his/her LEO credentials on their person, they can open or concealed carry, on or off duty. Displaying a badge while open-carrying is a good idea, although I'm not aware of a Texas law that requires it. LE agency policies may vary.

  15. #15
    Member Array aedinius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deafdave3 View Post
    Where'd you eat lunch??? Man, I miss Bill Miller and Ruby's!
    This was at Chris Madrid's.
    Knowing is half the battle.

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