VCDL - Open Carry Revisited

VCDL - Open Carry Revisited

This is a discussion on VCDL - Open Carry Revisited within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is not intended to start an argument/debate about OC vs CC, but for informational purposes only. Background by DaveH: Per Pro2A's question and other ...

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Thread: VCDL - Open Carry Revisited

  1. #1
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    VCDL - Open Carry Revisited

    This is not intended to start an argument/debate about OC vs CC, but for informational purposes only.

    Background by DaveH: Per Pro2A's question and other questions, which folk may have.
    1) As I have posted before, OC has different meanings in different States. Here in Virginia, OC means that if you can posses a gun, you can OC it. There is no "mother (or nanny) may I." There are no prior restraints on those who have not loss their rights to posses a firearm.

    2) There are a few situs restrictions such as no OC in State Parks (albeit OC in local government parks are OK), no OC on USFS land out of hunting season, no OC on K-12 school property. (However, CHP holders may possess a loaded concealed handgun while in a vehicle), etc. [That's all I can think of right now. Anyone have another, join in.]

    3) OC in restaurants is OK -- even under this new law. BTW if you drink you must OC, if you carry at all.
    As a number of folk here on DC have commented on VCDL always OCing or other comments about our position on OC, I thought I'd post the following from a recent VA-ALERT.

    [First person singular pronouns (I, my, mine, etc) and “PVC” reference Philip Van Cleave, President VCDL]

    Last week when I spoke at the Rivannah Rifle and Pistol Club near
    Charlottesville (thanks, again, to RRPC for their hospitality!), I was
    asked if I could address VCDL's position on open carry vs concealed
    carry. It turned out that one person who might normally have come to
    the meeting didn't do so because he apparently didn't like VCDL
    promoting open carry.

    I addressed the issue at the meeting, but the more I thought of it,
    the more I thought it should be addressed on VA-ALERT, as it had been
    a while since we have done so.

    While VCDL's predecessor organization (NVCDL) was formed in 1994
    specifically to push for concealed carry reform, VCDL does not promote
    one form of carry over the other. In fact, at VCDL events we don't
    even suggest that anyone carry at all. We have always felt that our
    members can decide for themselves as to whether they want to carry at
    an event openly or concealed, or even carry at all for that matter.

    VCDL does not sponsor open carry or concealed carry events at all. We
    may sponsor an event celebrating a legislative victory, such as the
    end of the restaurant ban, but we leave the decision on whether or not
    to carry and the carry method up to the individual.

    We WILL remind you if the law requires a certain form of carry for
    those that are carrying. For example, when we held some of our
    picnics in State Parks, we reminded everyone that concealed carry is
    required by law for those carrying. Same for open carrying in a
    restaurant that serves alcohol hosting an event before July 1, 2010.

    There are two camps of thought on open carry:

    1. Open carry is a right that helps advance our visibility, educates
    the public by disproving the TV & movie stereotypes that the only
    people who carry guns are cops or bad guys, moves our rights forward,
    and doesn't require government permission

    2. Open carry is a right, but politically dangerous, is too much "in-
    your-face," takes away tactical advantages, and could end up being
    banned or hurting our gun rights

    VCDL, as an organization, does not subscribe to camp #2's view of open
    carry. While we don't encourage or discourage open carry, we have
    found that it has been an avenue to showing the general public that
    everyday people, including friends and neighbors, are gun owners and
    carry a gun in a responsible manner for self-defense.

    But this issue is more complicated, with each method of carry having
    advantages and disadvantages:

    Open carry is more comfortable, especially in the hot summertime. It
    allows fast access to the handgun in an emergency. It can deter crime
    by a criminal seeing the gun and deciding to not go forward with a
    crime, keeping the gun owner from even having to draw the gun (lots
    of such cases documented, including within VCDL membership). HOWEVER,
    you had better know the gun laws and know if you are in a "no carry"
    zone. Although quite rare, you might be asked to leave private
    property. IF YOU ARE ask to leave, do NOT demand that the property be
    POSTED! Just politely leave.

    Concealed carry can allow a handgun to be presented in a way that is a
    surprise to criminal who has begun an attack, which, although
    generally slower than open carry, can be a tactical advantage in many
    cases because it allows YOU to decide whether or not to present your
    firearm. It is very handy if you have inadvertently wandered into a
    location where you aren't supposed to have a gun. Since the gun is
    hidden, no one knows that you goofed up. It also avoids the problem
    of carrying on private property where open carry is prohibited.

    The argument by camp #2 that makes me pull out what is left of my hair
    is that if someone open carries, they could cause us to lose that right.

    My response to that argument is simple:

    1. If you are afraid to exercise a right because it might be taken
    away, then you don't really have that right in the first place and

    2. If you are not exercising a right and don't feel that others
    should either, then what do you really care if that right is taken
    away or not?

    VCDL will strongly fight to protect both methods of carry from any
    attack in the General Assembly.

    And the debate goes on... If you wish to comment on this alert, you
    can do so on VCDL's blog site:

    The Sentinel

    ************************************************** *************************
    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
    dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
    Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

    VCDL web page: Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL) []
    Last edited by DaveH; June 12th, 2010 at 01:32 PM. Reason: friday night added "Background re: question...", then this AM fixed some syntax
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Makes sense to me!
    You can educate ignorance, you can't fix stupid
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  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Can you still OC in restaurants with this new law, or must you CC now like in AZ?

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  5. #4
    Member Array kootsoup's Avatar
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    Well written article DaveH!
    "There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet an enemy." GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter to Elbridge Gerry, Jan. 29, 1780

    "I'm NOT a Conservative, a Liberal, a Republican or a Democrat.. I'm a United States Citizen..." Me

  6. #5
    Member Array CajunBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro2A View Post
    Can you still OC in restaurants with this new law, or must you CC now like in AZ?
    From the above.

    3) OC in restaurants is OK -- even under this new law. BTW if you drink you must OC, if you carry at all.
    For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    John 3:16 (NKJV)

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