Myth buster

This is a discussion on Myth buster within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by dukalmighty In Reality gangstas thrive on street cred,If some guy said I saw a guy carrying a gun and robbed him of ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array 1911PKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    In Reality gangstas thrive on street cred,If some guy said I saw a guy carrying a gun and robbed him of his gun and money,or shot him and took his gun,they would be really bad ass in their buddys eyes
    Yep... this IS ^ how the young gang banger thinks.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootsoup View Post
    "Ah....no. They don't."

    Ah... yeah.. They do. And the ones that don't, end up dead or in prison real quick for doing stupid Things like trying to take someones firearm..
    They end up in prison AFTER robbing/raping/killing someone, not for "trying" to take a firearm.

    That is why the only story you could find is one that has already been debated on this site and I personally feel, as well as others on this site, is fake.
    I left that thread eventually, and there was debate, but no one that I saw suggested that it was "fake." Please provide some evidence to support that conclusion, aside fromt he fact that you want it to be fake...

    The fact is that if OC'ing deters 1 criminal in 1000 then it is worth whatever risk there might be of some Jackass attempting to take my firearm and use it against me.
    So, if you deter 1 in 1,000 but invite 5 in 1,000 - that's a good ratio for you? There's no way anyone can ever know what you've invited/deterred, for the most part, so really you're just picking numbers out of the air...

    I very confident in my abilities to retain my firearm.
    Outstanding. I'm sure the BG is confident as well. If only "confidence" were the sure deciding factor in violent confrontations...

    Moreover, deterrence is not the only reason I OC.. The main reason is because I simply do not feel the need to hide the fact that I am carrying. Plain and Simple
    Bingo, and more power to you. Best to just admit to this, and not cling to the "advantages" of OCing.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    They don't value life, period - yours, mine, or theirs - so the amount of danger is of no consequence. If it was, the jewelery store owner that was talked about a few months ago wouldn't have killed 5 robbers in his store over a period of years. LEO's wouldn't get shot on the job.

  5. #19
    Member Array kootsoup's Avatar
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    LoL! Its interesting to hear your points of view. And we are all entitled to our opinion. However, I know from personal experience that criminals are people as well. They think and act with reasons. They are reasons that are hard for many of us to understand, but none-the-less there is a logic behind there actions.

    The fact is that if gang bangers and criminals were just the mindless monsters that wished only to destroy the world without self preservation, everything would be MUCH worse then it is now.

    There is study after study and interview after interview that supports my opinion that criminals go after the weak and the defenseless. No one will ever convince me that a criminal or desperate drug addict would chose an in shape, 6 foot, 175 lb man with a sidearm over a grandmother with a purse or a teenager behind a counter...

    I grew up in a very bad situation and have personally watched my "friends" who were very bad people, I would say even EVIL, do stupid things.. They are almost all in prison now. I listened to them plan robberies, discuss mugging people and go off into the street with the simple plan to get into a fight. I know for sure that these idiots would still not be stupid enough to harass a man carrying. Hell, they carried (illegally) and would always know who was carrying at their parties.. they never picked fights with those people!! Its basic human instinct to not want to get shot!

    You folks who claim to have been working in LE for years or think you know how they think... your greatly mistaken! They make fun of you, talk trash about you, and would never tell you the truth about how they feel. Until you're in the slum house watching everyone snort coke, smoke crack, load and reload their stolen 9mm's while smoking blunts, you don't know.. I have been there and I can tell you with complete confidence... THEY DON'T BOTHER PEOPLE WITH SIDE ARMS!!

    So, with all due respect, don't call me naive.. I have seen more than I would like to have and have worked very hard to turn my life around and get out of that situation.
    "There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet an enemy." GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter to Elbridge Gerry, Jan. 29, 1780

    "I'm NOT a Conservative, a Liberal, a Republican or a Democrat.. I'm a United States Citizen..." Me

  6. #20
    Member Array celticredneck's Avatar
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    I cc much more often then oc, but it's been my experience that a lot of people are so caught up in their own little world that they don't even notice. Sheeple don't seem to have a lot of S.A.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootsoup View Post
    You folks who claim to have been working in LE for years or think you know how they think... your greatly mistaken! They make fun of you, talk trash about you, and would never tell you the truth about how they feel. Until you're in the slum house watching everyone snort coke, smoke crack, load and reload their stolen 9mm's while smoking blunts, you don't know.. I have been there and I can tell you with complete confidence... THEY DON'T BOTHER PEOPLE WITH SIDE ARMS!!

    So, with all due respect, don't call me naive.. I have seen more than I would like to have and have work very hard to turn my life around and get out of that situation.
    Congratulations on turning your life around. You're still naive. Criminals attack people who are known to have firearms all of the time. This has played out over and over in investigations that I've been involved with. I'm quite sure that my sample size over a 20 year career in the field dealing with these idiots gives me a greater cross section of the criminal world than your little group of scumbag buddies.

    They talk smack about cops? Wow. I never knew.

    Have fun in your version of the world.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array 1911PKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootsoup View Post

    You folks who claim to have been working in LE for years or think you know how they think... your greatly mistaken! They make fun of you, talk trash about you, and would never tell you the truth about how they feel. Until you're in the slum house watching everyone snort coke, smoke crack, load and reload their stolen 9mm's while smoking blunts, you don't know.. I have been there and I can tell you with complete confidence... THEY DON'T BOTHER PEOPLE WITH SIDE ARMS!!
    Uhhh... I'm there everyday, brother! (Sec.8) They MOSTLY certainly WILL target people with sidearms, and I don't look like grandma. Put it on your hip, out in the open, in the hood, and come to work with me. I'll do all the work, you just stand there and look smart.

    P.S. Wear flack a jacket! I'll give ya a week

  9. #23
    New Member Array RangerRonin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaquero 45 View Post

    ...

    Thinking that you are safe because criminals think rationally is a recipe for complacency, and potential disaster. If criminals always used common sense, they wouldn't be criminals. Plenty of trained police officers have been killed by their own handguns, snatched from retention holsters by desperate criminals. So much for avoiding a "hot" situation.

    The only reason we don't hear about OC'ers being victimized or being forced to become involved in a violent situation because of the presence of their exposed gun, is because of the relative rarity of OC in most areas of the country. As OC becomes more common, I think we'll start seeing more stories like the OC'er who was robbed of his gun in Wisconsin.

    The bottom line? A criminal's unpredictable behavior cannot be "debunked." If OC is the way you roll, go for it. But don't think that an openly carried pistol is a magic talisman to ward off evil
    .
    Completely agree. Even more to the point, it's not even irrational to think that a criminal will attack someone that OC's.. specifically because they OC. Guns are very attractive loot to criminals. The vast majority of them have criminal records and can't just look up the closest FFL and drop some cash on a pistol. Retention holsters are fine and dandy if the felon only tries to reach for the gun, but if their close enough to grab for the gun they're also close enough to take a swing with a $5 aluminum baseball bat. I support open carry laws but wouldn't want the attention that actually OCing would bring me.

    Kootsoop's right that most criminals won't go after an armed and fit "victim" over a frail old lady if their looking to steal a wallet or a handbag, but what if what he's after is the gun itself?

  10. #24
    Member Array kootsoup's Avatar
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    LOL! you guys are funny! Of course I would get attacked in the "hood".. A white boy from out of town walking around with a sidearm.. That's stupid and disrespectful and if you truly do work with these types of individuals you know there is an etiquette.. What I am saying that when you're shopping or out and about in a normal, proper side of town no thug is going to pick me out of the crowd for robbing.. there going to pick the defenseless and the weak. Do you really disagree with that??
    "There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet an enemy." GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter to Elbridge Gerry, Jan. 29, 1780

    "I'm NOT a Conservative, a Liberal, a Republican or a Democrat.. I'm a United States Citizen..." Me

  11. #25
    New Member Array RangerRonin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootsoup View Post
    LOL! you guys are funny! Of course I would get attacked in the "hood".. A white boy from out of town walking around with a sidearm.. That's stupid and disrespectful and if you truly do work with these types of individuals you know there is an etiquette.. What I am saying that when you're shopping or out and about in a normal, proper side of town no thug is going to pick me out of the crowd for robbing.. there going to pick the defenseless and the weak. Do you really disagree with that??
    Yeah. Guns are often worth more on the black market than they are from the factory. There are some criminal masterminds out there but most of them are candidates for the Darwin Award. A criminal seeing you OC an .45 HK with a real value of around $1k knows they can probably get $1.5k for it on the street and guns are a currency that drug dealers always accept. An enterprising criminal may also view getting your gun as an investment in the future (they can then commit even bigger and better crimes.) A criminal can rob a wallet that may have nothing but credit cards... or they can take chance and rob the $1.5 wad of cash swinging on your hip..

    I agree with you that criminals are by and large rational (when they're not high on crack/pcp/meth/lsd etc) but I can think of a whole lot of rational reasons why a criminal would attack someone that OC's.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootsoup View Post
    LOL! you guys are funny! Of course I would get attacked in the "hood".. A white boy from out of town walking around with a sidearm.. That's stupid and disrespectful and if you truly do work with these types of individuals you know there is an etiquette.. What I am saying that when you're shopping or out and about in a normal, proper side of town no thug is going to pick me out of the crowd for robbing.. there going to pick the defenseless and the weak. Do you really disagree with that??
    No.... I don't disagree with that. Seemed to have come across as gang bangers and street thugs wouldn't pick on a guy OCing a firearm. Most street thugs and gang bangers do tend to stay in the enviorment they know the best... generally speaking. I'm all for open carry but, it may not be good idea IF you're a minority on their turf. That's all.

    If you take on the endevor of OC "in the hood", while being a minority there, it screams " I'm scared, your neighborhood sucks, I'm stupid and this thing on my hip is going to protect me. They will see disrespect in that and they WILL challenge it, and you will likely loose that battle no matter how proficient you think you are with a handgun.

  13. #27
    Member Array kootsoup's Avatar
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    Well, I don't disagree with that.. If you tried that, you mights as well be running around yelling the "N" word... LOL! I wouldn't try that with a M60 tied to my face :)
    "There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet an enemy." GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter to Elbridge Gerry, Jan. 29, 1780

    "I'm NOT a Conservative, a Liberal, a Republican or a Democrat.. I'm a United States Citizen..." Me

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    How true! But also with all of the subconcious "tells" people have, don't assume that because your weapon is concealed no one else knows you are armed! BG's tend to interact with armed people on a regular basis. And not always on friendly terms. All it takes is a little bulge, a little flash, a little adjustment or quick check and you might as well be OC. If someone thinks you are armed why would they treat you any differently than someone they know is armed?

    Open or concealed, as long as you are legal and safe, that is all that matters.
    +1000 to this. I like to watch people and I really like to spot the folks out there who are CCW and think they are doing it well. Let me tell you this: almost no one does it well.

    I have seen people unknowingly expose their "concealed" hand gun by sweeping their cover garment aside while reaching for their wallet. I have seen guys get out of their car and pull their belt up by grabbing their holster on one side and spare mag on the other through their cover garment and hitching their pants up the same way I have seen countless LEO do it with their duty belt. I have seen blatantly obvious printing that the person was completely oblivious to.

    Very few people CCW well. And when they CCW poorly and think they are doing it well, they tend to let their situational awareness slide down to almost condition white. They think they can't be the victim of a gun grab because no one knows that they have a gun. But if I can see it, most street smart criminals will see it too.

    Carrying concealed doesn't always equal the element of surprise. That is something everyone should keep in mind at all times.
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  15. #29
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    one, thats false that a criminal wont go after someone for a gun, i know LEO's and a few guards i work with that have had people make a gun grab and get hurt for it. it is very rare, but it does happen. Never say Never. That being said, I OC, because it is comfortable and legal for me to do so
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootsoup View Post

    There is study after study and interview after interview that supports my opinion that criminals go after the weak and the defenseless. No one will ever convince me that a criminal or desperate drug addict would chose an in shape, 6 foot, 175 lb man with a sidearm over a grandmother with a purse or a teenager behind a counter...
    In the crappy areas of Los Angeles there have been cases where a gang banger will call 911 to get a police car rolling to a certain area so they can shoot it up when it arrives. I don't think most modern day BGs (not talking about a purse snatcher), would think twice about killing someone just to take his weapon and size doesn't matter when the BG is armed.

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