Myth buster

[kootsoup]

Actually its not that silly. Some "gangstas" and non-gangstas do this crap on a regular basis (do things for show and brag about it, make street status symbol). They try to "one-up" the other guy for status within their gang/hood and in competition with other gangs. Especially if they are with other fellow gang members, in view of rival gang members, or--most of time even worse--in front of their women.

We see this quite regularly with and within the rivaling biker gangs, the black vs hispanic, black vs asian, hispanic vs asian, white vs black.....etc etc etc gangs. Just like they try to out-do the others in marking out graffiti and putting on their own, they try to constantly looker bigger, "badder", and more bold than their rivals. This isn't me just rattling off words and my opinion. Its based on my LE experience, training, and gang awareness studies including Mexican drug cartels, bloods/crips and all their sub-associations, and biker gangs.

Now granted, not all turds of society are in gangs and they don't all act the same, but what dukalmighty was saying does happen, not every time stealing someone's gun, but the mindset and actions do occur. We've had guys here fight the cops and it elevated them within their circle of dirtbag thug friends according to what we've been told by informants and some of their associates.
There is a reason why cops carry retention holsters. There is a reason why you yourself carry one. Thugs are unpredictable. I've seen people on alcohol/meth/crack/marijuana (and combinations of any of the above) do some things that a normal person wouldn't think about doing. We've had some try to get guns away from cops. If they are that brazen and bold they would dang sure try it from someone not in uniform if the situation was right.
That being said, a turd lookin for a quick score in the walmart parking lot will most likely not target you carrying a visible gun on your hip vs the mom with purse on her shoulder with 2 kids in tow. Does that mean it won't ever happen? no, some turd with a buddy might look at that and think we'll take his wallet and his gun, its 2 on 1

Kootsoup, I'm not discounting what you saw, heard, experienced with the turds you grew up with/around. You have learned things from your perspective. Don't discount criminals in other areas of the country, other aspects of criminality, gangs, etc. Some will tell their fellow turds how dumb they are to attempt to attack someone that is armed, others will look at it as a bigger trophy.

I agree with you....criminals are people, and they come in every shape, size, level of competence and skill, and level of ruthlessness.
They all use logic as you say, and we all know their logic is idiotic, hateful, and criminal. However, I think you are limiting the scope of your outlook on what these thugs will or can do.

And yeah....those of us in LE know these tools make fun of us, talk trash about us, etc etc etc. We deal with them every day. We get info from informants on their behaviors, likes/dislikes, how they brag about their actions, and try to be more impressive than the other tools. I've had my life threatened, been told by the tools I was dealing with that they will catch me and my family when I don't have my badge and gun (which by the way NEVER happens lol), etc. There is a reason that while I'm at work my wife sleeps with a Glock 26 on the nightstand and an AR-15 and Mossberg 500 within the bedroom. I do the same when I'm at home. We've had turds confront officers off-duty with their family at the mall, walmart, and even one time at their house.

Kootsoup....kudos to you for getting out of your situation alive and non-criminal. Kudos to you for exercising your right to self-defense.

I would like to say that your post was very well written and very mature. Thank you for the complements, you open mindedness and your service to society!!

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Kortanis]

I can't remember if it was on DC or another forum but a while ago the users went on a crusade to find cases where an carrier had his weapon taken from him and then used by a BG. To my memory, there were no known (or at very least no documented) cases of this being true. That crusade essentially debunked that argument putting your chances of this happening as so small its not a real concern.

Does anyone recall this, am I getting it correct?

[OPFOR]

Thre is a thread here on DC documenting this very occurance. The short of it is that the victim/OCer was approached by a person who asked for a cigarette, then pulled a gun and robbed the OCer of his sidearm (I don't remember if he stole other items as well). The OCer stated that he believed that he was selected as a target BECAUSE he was OCing. We don't have the BGs opinion on the matter.

Was the gun used by the BG after the crime? Don't know that either, but I fail to see how it's relevant to anything. Criminals DO use stolen guns in furtherance of their criminal activities - is anyone arguing otherwise?

[JD]

Thre is a thread here on DC documenting this very occurance. The short of it is that the victim/OCer was approached by a person who asked for a cigarette, then pulled a gun and robbed the OCer of his sidearm (I don't remember if he stole other items as well). The OCer stated that he believed that he was selected as a target BECAUSE he was OCing. We don't have the BGs opinion on the matter.

Was the gun used by the BG after the crime? Don't know that either, but I fail to see how it's relevant to anything. Criminals DO use stolen guns in furtherance of their criminal activities - is anyone arguing otherwise?

http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...gun-point.html

[logan]

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but apparently the criminal who stole the gun could not get it out of the holster, so the guy had to pull it out for him.

If that were me (I'll say this now but who knows if I would in the real situation), I would have pulled the gun fast while pushing his gun away and shot the guy. That would only work if he was carrying with a bullet in the chamber. Considering in WI we have to load/unload each time you enter/exit a vehicle, a lot of people don't chamber a round.

[1911PKR]

Considering in WI we have to load/unload each time you enter/exit a vehicle, a lot of people don't chamber a round.

You gotta do WHAT?

[JD]

You gotta do WHAT?

WI has no concealed carry, and you can't open carry your loaded gun in your car.

[Kortanis]

Thre is a thread here on DC documenting this very occurance. The short of it is that the victim/OCer was approached by a person who asked for a cigarette, then pulled a gun and robbed the OCer of his sidearm (I don't remember if he stole other items as well). The OCer stated that he believed that he was selected as a target BECAUSE he was OCing. We don't have the BGs opinion on the matter.

Was the gun used by the BG after the crime? Don't know that either, but I fail to see how it's relevant to anything. Criminals DO use stolen guns in furtherance of their criminal activities - is anyone arguing otherwise?

Ah okay, like I said I couldn't remember where I heard it and I heard it third-party anyway. The criteria might have been, theft an open carried gun and shooting the victim. Oh well, maybe not. *shrug*

Not debating that they don't use stolen weapons, imo, that's pretty much all they use. Guns stolen and sold for money or goods that were stolen. Quite the perpetual system they've got going on.

[ryancleg]

This statement is silly.. even "gangstas" are not that stupid.. and if said jacka$$ did manage to pull off such a stunt, their buddies would tell them how stupid they are. You have to remember they are people too..

Wrong. The people who surround me everyday would definitely think they were hood as hell for doing that. And would brag and brag. Don't personify them. Really.

[ctsketch]

Actually its not that silly. Some "gangstas" and non-gangstas do this crap on a regular basis (do things for show and brag about it, make street status symbol). They try to "one-up" the other guy for status within their gang/hood and in competition with other gangs. Especially if they are with other fellow gang members, in view of rival gang members, or--most of time even worse--in front of their women.

as a person who grew up in the inner city...I can attest to this

[threefeathers]

I agree most folks don't care, if you are doing normal things like shopping, talking to others, going about your normal business no one cares.

[YFZsandrider]

I can't believe this thread has gone on this long without.....

[NC Buckeye]

"Ah....no. They don't."

Ah... yeah.. They do. And the ones that don't, end up dead or in prison real quick for doing stupid Things like trying to take someones firearm..

I love it when everyone is right. Gang-bangers are people too, most don't want to dive head 1st into a fire fight, but... Some are likely to be desperate to make their bones or change a perceived opinion about themselves. In that case, they might believe the risk to be worth the reward of more "street cred."

Addicts, Crazies and Thieves don't want a fight. Bangers and Thugs might.

Why would you think that criminals have a different perception towards violence than the law abiding? The criminals have wolves and sheep too, they are people.

[mprp]

Ahhhh Kari

[shockwave]

After over 20 years working corrections and law enforcement, I can tell you that you are completely wrong. Criminals behave in all sorts of ways, depending on their level of desperation, intoxication, psychosis or just plain meanness. It is patently absurd to assign normal, rational thinking to violent felons.

That is a correct statement and well worth underscoring. Lots of people claim that they "know how criminals think" and they are wrong by definition. Statistically, about 15 percent of the population commits crimes of some sort or another, and this percentage is fairly steady across all races and socioeconomic levels. What does change is the types of crimes committed. At the high end, well, Bernie Madoff. Here in Florida, lots of big guys are going down for political activity fraud and PAC malfeasance, and a few big Ponzi schemers.

The white-collar, upper SES criminal is potentially more dangerous to you than a street mugger. What's a punk kid going to take off you? Your wallet? Your watch and phone? That's a couple hundred bucks, or less. The Ponte Vedra Beach criminal will take your investments and life savings, robbing you of your entire financial wealth and imperiling your future and economic security. So it's not like one type is any less "bad" than the other.

In other words, criminals come from all walks of life and represent all types of people. There's no particular "type" and it's foolishly absurd to run around beating your chest saying you "know" how criminals think. That's just projecting your own insecurity. Hardening your personal defenses means being prepared for anything, at any time, with no pre-expectations.

My position on OC is that it is usually location-dependent. If you're some Wyoming rancher, power to you. If you live in a dense urban district, it's probably best to CC. Guns are expensive. Walking around with a Glock on your hip is tantamount to flashing a Rolex watch.

Two guys working together could take your OC gun away like snatching candy from a baby. You can work out your own scenario, but it's certainly easy to do. Guy in front distracts you, guy behind clubs you with a piece of rebar. They'll deal with your retention holster at their leisure. So OC doesn't convey any advantage except convenience, and out in rural areas it's a natural thing to do. In the city, seems like more of some kind of political thing.