Asked why I carry

This is a discussion on Asked why I carry within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Oh and on a side note mgo, I am waiting on my CHP so I do not exactly have a choice. That being said, once ...

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Thread: Asked why I carry

  1. #16
    Member Array Shackleton's Avatar
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    Oh and on a side note mgo, I am waiting on my CHP so I do not exactly have a choice. That being said, once I have a choice I have already decided to OC more than CC as a matter of personal preference.
    Semper Paratus

    ‎"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell

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  3. #17
    KAK
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    People who arnt exposed to firearms are usually ignorant asses to people who carry. They ask why you carry with the most snobbiest attitude.

  4. #18
    Member Array Beretta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyCop View Post
    Doesn't come up often with me but when it does and they are genuinely interested and not argumentative about it I use this as a point:

    Me: Do you think it's a good idea to have a fire extinguisher at home?
    Them: Yes
    Me: Right, your not being paranoid about fires - just prepared because you know the fire department isn't just sitting outside your house and would take a while to get there & it'd be really good if you could take action in the mean time.
    Me: So - my or your having a gun can be looked at the same way; If someone breaks into your house the police aren't sitting in your living room waiting for this to happen - they are going to take awhile to arrive "IF" your even able to call them - so - you are just being prepared / just in case something like that happens.
    Me: Also - same reasoning for carrying a gun (legally with permit) on your person - your prepared, just in case something happens and you need to take action because the police aren't following you around every minute of every day.
    That usually makes sense to anyone I talk with about this subject....
    Quote Originally Posted by CCWFlaRuger View Post
    That is possibly the best verbalization of this argument I have ever heard, I may steal it, if you don't mind.
    Yes, I agree! Think I will 'borrow' it too! Thanks for sharing ArmyCop!
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  5. #19
    Member Array Shackleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAK View Post
    People who arnt exposed to firearms are usually ignorant asses to people who carry. They ask why you carry with the most snobbiest attitude.
    Well that's not helping our cause, is it?
    Semper Paratus

    ‎"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyCop View Post
    Doesn't come up often with me but when it does and they are genuinely interested and not argumentative about it I use this as a point:

    Me: Do you think it's a good idea to have a fire extinguisher at home?
    Them: Yes
    Me: Right, your not being paranoid about fires - just prepared because you know the fire department isn't just sitting outside your house and would take a while to get there & it'd be really good if you could take action in the mean time.
    Me: So - my or your having a gun can be looked at the same way; If someone breaks into your house the police aren't sitting in your living room waiting for this to happen - they are going to take awhile to arrive "IF" your even able to call them - so - you are just being prepared / just in case something like that happens.
    Me: Also - same reasoning for carrying a gun (legally with permit) on your person - your prepared, just in case something happens and you need to take action because the police aren't following you around every minute of every day.
    That usually makes sense to anyone I talk with about this subject....
    Quote Originally Posted by CCWFlaRuger View Post
    That is possibly the best verbalization of this argument I have ever heard, I may steal it, if you don't mind.
    +1! I will have to use this one for sure.
    NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G18CFw0lnD8

    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.

    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Good opportunity IMO. Good answer.
    I've only been asked one time in open carry territory (Kansas) by a girl at the Wal Mart in Ft Scott, KS automotive department. I'll never forget it. She asked basically the same thing...why are you carrying a gun? My reply was...why aren't you? Do you know your rights under the US constitution?

    Why I'd like to see more open carry, nationwide? Despite those who think it's tactically unsound to do so, or those who think that it's somehow asserting some form of dominance or power over others in a threatening manner...............................deep down it's an educational experience for those who are lost and have forgotten, or were never taught about our history as a country, our rights, and how we got to be where we are today. If we don't start opening more eyes, and fielding more questions about carry and our given rights (with good responses), then we'll all soon be lost along with them. Open carry is more important than you know. Be ready to be questioned......have good answers, and make a difference for us all....as a country. Shackleton just made one more step for us today and the country as a whole.
    I agree.. I wish we had more ambassadors setting good examples
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  8. #22
    Member Array sandman1212's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyCop View Post
    Doesn't come up often with me but when it does and they are genuinely interested and not argumentative about it I use this as a point:

    Me: Do you think it's a good idea to have a fire extinguisher at home?
    Them: Yes
    Me: Right, your not being paranoid about fires - just prepared because you know the fire department isn't just sitting outside your house and would take a while to get there & it'd be really good if you could take action in the mean time.
    Me: So - my or your having a gun can be looked at the same way; If someone breaks into your house the police aren't sitting in your living room waiting for this to happen - they are going to take awhile to arrive "IF" your even able to call them - so - you are just being prepared / just in case something like that happens.
    Me: Also - same reasoning for carrying a gun (legally with permit) on your person - your prepared, just in case something happens and you need to take action because the police aren't following you around every minute of every day.
    That usually makes sense to anyone I talk with about this subject....

    Wow, looks like alot of us have found a new way to approach this question! I even considered using this as my signature JK, but Fantastic response!
    KAHR CW45, RIA 1911 Officer, S&W Sigma 9MM, Savage 1907 .32cal(BUG)

  9. #23
    Member Array mdmorgan's Avatar
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    I wish more states had open carry. Well done on giving the young lady something to think about.

  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    I stopped trying to explain why years ago because I usually was up against some anti who had an agenda.All I say now is because I can and I let the questioner steer the conversation.It usually goes like this ;are you a cop?Me no. Are you that pariond you feel you need to have carry a gun. I tell them
    do you realize in the city I live in there 4 officers to take care of a city of 20,000 that swells to over 50,000 during the day. One major event we have no force covering the city so you are only kidding yourself if you think law enforcement there for you.A pistol is nothing more than a tool that we all hope
    we never use to protect us or our love ones but we are prepared if we must.A little bit of education changes the tone in the discussion real quick.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    These are my two very explanations of why I carry The first an articale by John Connor
    Quote Originally Posted by John Connor
    If I had a nickel for every time I've been asked that question, I'd have, uh ... as many guns as his firearm-festooned Editorial Immenseness, Roy-Boy. It's been asked of me by all flavors of folks in all slices of society, with attitudes and expressions ranging from angry-arrogant to curtly-contemptuous, to brainless an' befuddled. My answers to it have sorta formed three phases in my professional gun-carrying life. During that first and longest phase, I answered all of 'era sincerely and articulately, often following up with stacks of historic and legal documents. After many years, I concluded only a semi-significant sliver of people even heard what I was sayin'. The rest had already made up their muddled minds.

    Finally, I just got sick of it, and moved on to Phase 2. If those asking seemed to have teensy open spaces in their minds, I gave 'em S & A: "Sincere & Articulate." The more harshly-bleating sheep, however, often got exchanges like this:

    "So," queried Snidely Snotworth III, lookin' down his unbusted but needed-bustin' nose, "Why do you think you have to carry a gun?"

    "Well," bellowed the Brutish Neanderthal (that would be me): "Because you're not QUALIFIED to carry one. You haven't got the skills, the judgment, the sense of responsibility, or the courage for it."

    This answer often popped out after I'd just returned from some Heart-Of-Darkness where every living soul knew that the difference between slaves and free people is having the means and determination to defend their lives, property and liberties. That meant having guns and guts and God-given rights. Most of those people would quite literally die fighting for the freedoms so many Americans casually give away, and proudly bear social responsibilities those sheeple * won't even recognize.

    * Sheeple: Sheep-like people, many of whom deny the existence of wolves, and vote to pull the teeth of the sheepdogs who protect the flock.

    The Voices

    Then I matriculated to Phase 3, where I started having some fun with the Snidely Snotworth types. When they asked the Big Question, I'd go all hunchy-shouldered an' secretive, then lean in close and mutter, "Because of the voices, ya know?" "The VOICES?" sniveled the Snidelies, suddenly scaredy-cattish. "Oh, yeah, the voices ... They told me to be, you know, prepared for when the killer clowns come ... " I'd furtively goggle around. "The voices say the killer clowns are comin' ... They're cannibals, some of 'era, and ..."

    About that time the Snidelies would be skitterin' away like mice on polished marble.

    Yeah, I know, the "killer clowns" answer might not have been "helpful," but it did just as much good as giving S&A answers to the sheeple, and it was a lot more fun for me. I know you already know why we carry these cannons. But sometimes, just sometimes, we all need a little reminder. That includes me, and I've got one to share with you. One that got me where I live.

    The Connor Clan has been nomadic, and we've lived in a number of places. In one of 'era, we shared a side yard and friendship with a young woman we'll call Miss Maine, and her knee-high daughter, Little Lizzie. Miss Maine quickly bonded with the Memsaab Helena. Clearly, Helena's Amazon-warrior spirit and skill with arms impressed Miss Maine mightily, and much of their time and talk revolved around that fierce self-confidence--and guns.

    As for Little Lizzie, the munchkin almost duct-taped herself to the Mem's leg. She followed Helena everywhere, but always, always, kept glancing back to check on her momma, as though she were the worried parent.

    There was something guarded, something hurt and defensive about both of them, and that fearfulness extended to me for a while. They got over it, thank God. Then I sorta became a moving bunker for 'em, representing cover and protection. Finally, we learned the story.

    Miss Maine had been attacked--brutally and viciously. You don't wanta know the details. As with so many such crimes, it wasn't really about sex. It was about hate and domination, cowardice and cruelty. And an even younger Little Lizzie had witnessed it. I like to think the Memsaab and I helped them to recover emotionally.

    Then one day Lizzie came and snuggled into my shadow, visibly disturbed. That morning her kindergarten had put on "Frighten The Munchkins Day." Some schools do a pretty good job of alerting children to predators--don't go with strangers and that kinda thing--but others do more harm than good. All they do is terrify the tots and give 'era no operating options. Lizzie already had twin tears glistening, ready to fall when she grabbed a tiny fistful of my trouser-leg and asked, "Connor-Sir, will you a'ways be here? Wouldja be here ... When the bad mens come?"

    My knees cracked on the sidewalk as she slammed into my shoulder, shaking with sobs as the hot tears came, splashing my neck and searing into my soul. "'Cause I'm a-scared!" she choked, and clutched me tighter. Oh, GOD/Who would not--who could not--fight without fear, suffer without sense of sacrifice, and kill or die deliberately, using the most effective means available--to protect life, liberty and a Little Lizzie? For God's sake, who?

    Those who would not are no better than the predators.

    Maybe in Phase 4, when somebody pops The Big Question I'll just smile and say, "For life, liberty and Little Lizzie." You guys can fill in the details.
    This is the best post I have ever read of why I open carry by Tubby45 on this forum
    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45
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    My primary goal when Iím out and about (besides whatever I went out and about to do) is to go about peaceably and not be the victim of a violent crime. To that end I carry a firearm whenever I go out as well as follow all the other standard safety practices like maintaining situational awareness, staying out of high crime areas, and avoiding confrontation. I also have a larger overall goal of making it through my life without shooting anyone. Simply put, I donít want to be responsible, legally or morally, for anotherís death. Those two goals might appear at first blush to be mutually exclusive, and with concealed carry it would be a difficult set of goals to realize.

    Carrying a concealed firearm presents to a criminal that I am unarmed. Every study Iíve ever read, not most but every study, says that criminals will avoid an armed person or home when selecting a victim. That only makes sense, right? Robbers, rapists, or carjackers might be dumb and opportunistic, but they have the same instinctual sense of self preservation we all have. Hyenas donít attack lions to steal the gazelle the lions have just killed. Itís all about risk management; are the potential gains (a tasty gazelle dinner) worth the potential pain and damage the lionís teeth will cause, and does the hyena really need to test the lion to figure out the answer? No, the hyena can see the lionís teeth and knows to stay well clear.

    Deterrent Value:
    When Iím carrying concealed I feel like my Ďteethí are hidden, and thus of no real deterrent value. If I appear unarmed then I am unarmed in the eyes of the robber, I appear as easy a target as almost anyone else out on the street. My probability of being a victim of a crime, violent or otherwise, is completely unchanged by the fact that I have hidden beneath my shirt the means to defend myself. My goal, however, is not to be a victim in the first place, remember? I donít want to be a victim that fought back successfully and triumphed; I prefer to not be victimized at all. Concealed carry is good; it throws a wrench in the works for criminals who might see the teaming masses as a smorgasbord of financial gain. This deterrent effect is, nonetheless, indirect. At some point the thug will weigh the risks vs. the gains; is his current desperation for money/drugs/booze/gold grille greater than the gamble that one of those people might be carrying a gun? If he decides to play the odds, which helped along with surprise tip the scale in his favor, he will attack. Will his attack allow enough time for me to draw my concealed firearm to affect a defense? Maybe, but then again, maybe not.

    Remember, I donít want to be a victim and I donít want to shoot anyone. So how do I realize both goals; or how do I make them inclusive? I can do that through open carry. By making it clear and obvious that I am armed, that I have teeth, I tip the risk scale to the point that the criminalís gains are far outweighed by the risk. There is no ambiguity when the thug is doing his risk assessment, thereís something right there in plain sight that can quickly and painfully change or terminate his life. You may not think his life has much value, but as I mentioned before, he has the same sense of self preservation as any other living creature and to him itís every bit as valuable as yours is to you. It would be foolish to ignore this indisputable fact when you develop your overall tactical strategy.

    First One To Be Shot:
    There are some who criticize open carry and claim it will make you more of a target or Ďthe first one shotí when a robber walks into the 7-11, despite the absolute lack of credible evidence that this has ever happened. If the robber walks in and sees that youíre armed, his whole plan has encountered an unexpected variable. In bank robberies where he might expect to see an armed guard he will have already factored that possibility into his plan, but only for the armed guard, not for open or concealed carry citizens. No robber robs a bank without at least a rudimentary plan. Nevertheless, being present for a bank robbery is an extremely remote possibility for most of us regardless of our preferred method of handgun carry. Back in the 7-11, if he sees someone is armed he is forced to either significantly alter the plan or abort it outright. Robbing is an inherently apprehensive occupation, and one that doesnít respond well to instant modifications. He is not prepared to commit murder when he only planned for larceny. He knows that a petty robbery will not garner the intense police manhunt a murder would. He doesnít know if youíre an armed citizen or a police officer and isnít going to take the time to figure it out. Either way, if someone in the 7-11 is unexpectedly armed, how many others might be similarly adorned and where might they be? Does this armed individual have a partner who is likewise armed behind him in the parking lot, someone who is watching right now? Self preservation compels him to abort the plan for one that is less risky. So we see that the logic matches the history; open carriers are not the first ones shot because it doesnít make any sense that they would be.

    Surprise:
    Probably the most common condemnation of open carry comes from the armchair tacticians who believe itís better to have the element of surprise in a criminal encounter. Although this was touched on in the previous paragraph about deterrence, Iíll expand on it specifically here because there are some important truths you need to consider before you lean too heavily on this false support. Surprise as a defensive tactic is based on unrealistic or ill-thought out scenarios. The circumstance where several street toughs surround and taunt you for a while like in some Charles Bronson movie is not realistic; the mugger wants to get in and out as fast as possible. In most cases you will have only seconds to realize whatís happening, make a decision, and react. Imagine youíre walking along the sidewalk when two gangsta looking teenagers suddenly appear at the corner coming in the opposite direction. You have only seconds to react if their intent was to victimize you. Do you draw your concealed firearm now or wait until thereís an actual visible threat? If they are just on their way to church and you pull a gun on them, you are the criminal and you may forever lose your firearms rights for such a foolish action. If you donít draw and they pull a knife or pistol when theyíre just a couple steps away, your only options are draw (if you think you can) or comply. Imagine staring at the shiny blade of a knife being held by a very nervous and violent mugger, three inches from your or your wifeís throat and having to decide whether or not you have time to draw from concealment. The element of surprise may not do you any good; in fact the only surprising thing that might happen is that your concealed carry pistol gets taken along with your wallet. The thug will later get a good chuckle with his buddies about how you brought a gun to a knife fight. The simple truth is that while surprise is a monumentally superior tactical maneuver, it is exclusively an offensive action, not a defensive one. I am not aware of any army that teaches using surprise as a defense against attack. No squad of soldiers goes on patrol with their weapons hidden so that they can Ďsurpriseí the enemy should they walk into an ambush.

    It Will Get Stolen:
    Another common criticism of open carry is that the firearm itself will be the target of theft, prompting as criminal to attack simply to get the gun from you. Like the previous example of being the first one shot in a robbery, above, this is despite the fact that there is no credible evidence it happens. It also blindly ignores the more obvious fact that anything you possess can make you the target of a crime, be it a car, a watch, or even a female companion (girlfriend, wife, or daughter). Crooks commonly steal for only two reasons; to get something you have that they want, or to get something that you have so they can sell it and buy something they want. There are no Robins in the hood trying to help the poor by stealing from the rich. I donít claim it could never happen; just that itís so remote a possibility that it doesnít warrant drastic alterations to your self defense strategies. If you believe otherwise, leave your watch, sunglasses, jewelry, and cell phone at home, hop into your Pinto wagon, and head out to do your thing.

    It Scares People:
    One other statement against open carry I hear is that it damages public perception of firearms owners, or that by carrying openly we are not being good ambassadors to the public. While there are some people who have a genuine fear of firearms, due either to some horrible past experience or anti-gun indoctrination, the majority of people are either indifferent to them or quite fascinated by them. Iíve never kept track of the dozens of fellow citizens Iíve encountered who have marveled at the idea of open carry, but I do know exactly how many have expressed displeasure at it; one. People are scared of many things for many reasons; however, pretending those things do not exist only perpetuates the fear. Someone who is disturbed by open carry is going to be every bit as disturbed by concealed carry. The only effective way to overcome a fear is to come to the intellectual realization that the phobia is based on emotion and not on fact. By being a firsthand witness that a firearm was carried responsibly and peaceably, and wasnít being carried in the commission of a crime, one discovers their fear is not fact based, but emotional. Thus, open carry can be a very effectual way of helping to overcome the emotionally based fear of the firearm. After all, youíd be much more likely to believe in ghosts if you saw one rather than if you listened to a ghost story around a campfire. We give much more credibility to the things we experience than we do to the things we hear. The bottom line is that this argument is made by people who donít or havenít carried openly; those of us who do so on a regular basis have an entirely different experience.

    Iím Not Comfortable Carrying Openly:
    This is really the only reasonable argument against open carry for an individual. We all have a comfort zone for any aspect of our lives and we prefer to stay within that comfort zone. We all agree that itís better to be armed and never need the firearm than it is to need it and not have it. There is a point where concealing your firearm becomes so problematic, due to conditions like temperature or comfort, that some choose to either leave it behind or carry in such a way that it would be difficult or impossible to draw it quickly. If it takes me five or six seconds to draw my firearm from deep concealment and I had sufficient time before hand to do so, I would prefer to use that five or six seconds to avoid the entire encounter. Iím glad we have concealed carry laws in most of the states; it empowers and protects not only us but the general public through the offset deterrent effect. Some of us, however, choose the more direct deterrent effect of open carry. The combination of the two makes the criminalís job that much more risky, that much more dangerous, and that much more uncertain.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  12. #26
    Member Array crf3973's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shackleton View Post
    Happy late 4th, and also; I am America's biggest fan.
    I thought that was Barack Obama

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