Baaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh

Baaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh

This is a discussion on Baaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So I OC'd bowling on Thursday night, went with my buddy to go pick up some girl and her brother. We went to Mickey D's, ...

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Thread: Baaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    Baaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh

    So I OC'd bowling on Thursday night, went with my buddy to go pick up some girl and her brother. We went to Mickey D's, which turned out to be closed. I got out of the car, walked around right next to them, and they never noticed my sidearm. In fact, they did not notice my sidearm until halfway into the first game of bowling during which i was turning my body and moving my strong arm out and away from my side. The girl finally noticed and I heard, OMG, why does he have a gun. My friend who btw, does not, and is not old enough to carry, just looked at her and said, its in case something bad happens, and he has to carry one for work. I didn't bother pointing out that I don't have too outside of work, because I thought the point went across and clicked in her mind, and I didn't want to do anything other than celebrate my second strike of the game. Her brother wants me to take him shooting, but I do have some apprehension in doing so because he is a minor, and I know some minor's are responsible, but I know how I was at 15 and I should not have been around guns at that age. Its amazing the difference a few years can make. However, the fact is that their SA was so low, they did not notice that someone in their group was carrying a full-size pistol openly on his belt during semi-strenuous activity. I was shocked that people can be so oblivious to their surroundings to not notice something so obvious to me
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."


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    Do not be surprised, some people have such tunnel vision they could be hit right between the eyes with a 2X4 and they would never know where it came from.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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    Member Array ItsMyRight2's Avatar
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    Sorry but I know I would be worried if I saw an 18-19 year old carrying. Sorry just my opinion.I am sure I'll get flack for that but I really think thats way too young.I wish they would change some laws around about that but then again....who am I.
    When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.
    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    Hey, thats your opinion, you're entitled to it. Here is why I support carry at 18. If a draft is reinstated, I can be forced to go to war, fight and die, for my country. I can be issued an M16 and battle gear and sent to combat. 18 is the age where a juvenile becomes an adult. This is why I believe that an 18 year old should be allowed to carry a firearm, if 18 is the age I am an adult, all my rights come to me at 18, not 21. Some of the younger people my age that carry are some of the most responsible people I know. I know people my age who are more mature and responsible with a weapon than a 50 year old man. Its not the age, its the maturity level. That being said, now that I learned my lesson, and had my wake up call from a friend of mine who I met when I did something stupid and he set me straight, I am a responsible young man who holds a decent job, and stays out of trouble. That being said, I respect and thank you for you opinion, and I understand where you're coming from with the age thing. A high school kid at 18 could lawfully carry a gun off of school property. That is a little worrisome, but I think it should be handled on a case to case basis
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  5. #5
    Member Array ItsMyRight2's Avatar
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    You do have some valid points. I must have been a late bloomer. I don't think it would have been a good idea for me to carry at that age. But I guess it does come down to maturity level and general mindset at the time. I was a punk kid getting into street fights all the time so yea I surely didn't need a firearm on me at that age. I really dont regret what I did at time because I feel it made me who I am today.If I would have had on gun on my side things might not have turned out so well. But I will agree that there probably were 18 year olds that could have handled it better than I would have. I just think at 18 your minds really not molded yet. I am sure a lot of old guys like me would agree that our mindset now is way different than it was when we were 18.

    And don't take my posts wrong. i am not trying to belittle or get into a ******* match,just friendly conversation. :)
    When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.
    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    New Member Array Seventy9TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    Hey, thats your opinion, you're entitled to it. Here is why I support carry at 18. If a draft is reinstated, I can be forced to go to war, fight and die, for my country. I can be issued an M16 and battle gear and sent to combat. 18 is the age where a juvenile becomes an adult. This is why I believe that an 18 year old should be allowed to carry a firearm, if 18 is the age I am an adult, all my rights come to me at 18, not 21. Some of the younger people my age that carry are some of the most responsible people I know. I know people my age who are more mature and responsible with a weapon than a 50 year old man. Its not the age, its the maturity level. That being said, now that I learned my lesson, and had my wake up call from a friend of mine who I met when I did something stupid and he set me straight, I am a responsible young man who holds a decent job, and stays out of trouble. That being said, I respect and thank you for you opinion, and I understand where you're coming from with the age thing. A high school kid at 18 could lawfully carry a gun off of school property. That is a little worrisome, but I think it should be handled on a case to case basis
    Well said. We can't let the old farts keep us down!..

    I'm 24 btw, and I'm j/k so don't be mad. haha

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    So I OC'd bowling on Thursday night, went with my buddy to go pick up some girl and her brother. We went to Mickey D's, which turned out to be closed. I got out of the car, walked around right next to them, and they never noticed my sidearm. In fact, they did not notice my sidearm until halfway into the first game of bowling during which i was turning my body and moving my strong arm out and away from my side. The girl finally noticed and I heard, OMG, why does he have a gun. My friend who btw, does not, and is not old enough to carry, just looked at her and said, its in case something bad happens, and he has to carry one for work. I didn't bother pointing out that I don't have too outside of work, because I thought the point went across and clicked in her mind, and I didn't want to do anything other than celebrate my second strike of the game. Her brother wants me to take him shooting, but I do have some apprehension in doing so because he is a minor, and I know some minor's are responsible, but I know how I was at 15 and I should not have been around guns at that age. Its amazing the difference a few years can make. However, the fact is that their SA was so low, they did not notice that someone in their group was carrying a full-size pistol openly on his belt during semi-strenuous activity. I was shocked that people can be so oblivious to their surroundings to not notice something so obvious to me
    While the kid is 15. he does have the capacity to learn...and shoot under supervision. Teach him the rules of gun safety and safe gun handling (that is, no holster for him!). Tell him what is NOT appropriate (basically, everything he sees on TV and the gun is not shot canted at 0 degrees).
    Last edited by SIGguy229; July 24th, 2010 at 03:34 PM.
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  8. #8
    Member Array ItsMyRight2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seventy9TA View Post
    Well said. We can't let the old farts keep us down!..

    I'm 24 btw, and I'm j/k so don't be mad. haha
    Yes I do find myself giving those old man speeches more and more lately. Just put me in my place when I get out of hand. Darn this age thing!!!
    When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.
    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Member Array YFZsandrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    ...they did not notice that someone in their group was carrying a full-size pistol openly on his belt during semi-strenuous activity.
    Since when is bowling "semi-strenuous"?!
    COTEP member and 1911Forum reject

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    I was shocked that people can be so oblivious to their surroundings to not notice something so obvious to me
    So, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this what OC is all about? Or in other words, the ability to carry a firearm openly and have it be given no more notice than, say, a cell phone.
    If you have never broken your gun or bled on your gun in training, you're doing it wrong!
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seventy9TA View Post
    Well said. We can't let the old farts keep us down!..

    I'm 24 btw, and I'm j/k so don't be mad. haha

    Hey, watch it, I resemble that remark...

    Actually, I don't have a problem with any responsible adult having a permit to carry. If you screw up, you pay the price, and a heavy one.

    Stay armed...an armed society is a polite society...stay safe!
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  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    RoadRunner, you're right, that is the point of OC, to have it become so ingrained into the mind and psyche of the public that it is a non issue, ItsMyRight, you also have some good points, I think what it boils down to is, who feels like they can and should be carrying and hopefully everyone makes the right decision for theirselves, glad you brought that point in for discussion, i think some good points came out of it. The main thing I am addressing is not the fact that the OC was not a big deal, it was the fact that it wasn't noticed in close contact. Semi-Strenuous bowling takes place when one or more people do not know how to bowl properly, therefore resulting in falling down and sliding down the lane into the pins, making direct contact with the pins without the use of a ball, whether intentional or otherwise
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    18 is the age where a juvenile becomes an adult
    While there is little doubt that you would like this to be true, it is not so. An 18 year old is still a teenager. If you survey the various state laws in force around the country, you'll see that what rights and responsibilities and liabilities accrue to young people vary by location. Up until federal highway funding forced the issue, even the drinking age was highly variable. There are still variations for tobacco, age of consent, etc.

    So you aren't talking about "becoming an adult" here, you are merely noting some changes in how the law applies to you. Do be aware that the tired-out phrase, "old enough to go to war and die for my country" is a hoary old cliche and non-suasive of anything. For general purposes, we can say that 21 is the age of matriculation into adult society, and most people develop full autonomous responsibility and adequate judgement in their 20s. Kohlberg, Piaget, and Erikson - pioneers of developmental psychology - all posit moral awareness as solidifying around this time.

    That's important because sound moral judgement is a key aspect to the safe carrying of firearms in the public sphere. Since there's no test we can apply to discriminate between the 18 year olds who can be trusted and those who are still immature, I would prefer that the age of 21 be the standard for OC and CCW.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsMyRight2 View Post
    Sorry but I know I would be worried if I saw an 18-19 year old carrying. Sorry just my opinion.I am sure I'll get flack for that but I really think thats way too young.I wish they would change some laws around about that but then again....who am I.
    I disagree^ I'm 19 and have worked as a Range Officer at a rifle range. I don't think you can stereotype and say "all" I have more firearms training than most 18-19 year olds but I think I should be allowed to CC with a permit of course....

    Also my 2 best friends who are Eagle Scouts just graduate the Fire Academy and are now Fire Fighters... I guess you won't want someone 6'4' 230 pounds saving your family from a burning building just because they are 18 years old.?
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    Member Array Alchemist77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsMyRight2 View Post
    Yes I do find myself giving those old man speeches more and more lately. Just put me in my place when I get out of hand. Darn this age thing!!!
    Well.... it is not always the case that age brings wisdom, just as it is not always the case that youth breeds stupidity...... however, the older I get (late 30's now...) the more I see that alot of (maybe most) teenagers have regular fits of stupidity, even the more mature ones. Heck, 21 year olds are not necessarily a whole lot better :] Certainly it varies from person to person, and some reach emotional and logical maturity at an earlier age than others (some never seem to get there :] ). I carried a handgun while hunting at 13-14, and bought my first handgun at 16 (S&W 686). I trained with it with my dad's officers, and sometimes carried it in my vehicle from then on (not to school). I also carried a pocket knife to school from about 6th grade on with several of my teacher's knowledge, as it was just a normal tool to have in my pocket along with keys, change, and pens; however, that was a different time and a different place.

    So yes, some youngsters can be more or less responsible. Yes, 18 year olds can become soldiers, fight, and die for our country and values; however, that doesn't mean that every 18 year old has been through the training and discipline regimens that an 18 year old soldier has, with respect to carrying and using a weapon. Unfortuntately, our laws have to legislate for the majority, not just the relatively small fraction who would be fine carrying at 18. Same thing for speed limits and other aspects of every day activities.

    Alchemist77

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