OC'd in two bars last night.

This is a discussion on OC'd in two bars last night. within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Went out to Iron Hill and Lancaster Brewing Company in Lancaster, PA last night with my wife and another couple for dinner. We sat in ...

Page 1 of 11 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 152
Like Tree2Likes

Thread: OC'd in two bars last night.

  1. #1
    Member Array littlebr4d's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Live in PA, Work in Harm City
    Posts
    44

    OC'd in two bars last night.

    Went out to Iron Hill and Lancaster Brewing Company in Lancaster, PA last night with my wife and another couple for dinner.

    We sat in the bar area at a table. My Sig was in my OWB holster at about 4 o'clock on my right side. I was sitting near an aisle that was heavily traveled.

    Got a few stares from people here and there but nothing crazy. I am a regular customer at Iron Hilll and am a member of the 'mug club'. When it came time to settle the bill, my Mug Club card didn't scan because of some problem with their system so I had to speak to the manager. I saw him look down at my hip when he walked up to me, but he made no mention of it and both he and our server were very nice. [I had one beer here, the Cherry Brown Ale. Very tasty!]

    About an hour later, we then made the short trip to Lancaster Brewing Company where my buddy got some wings and we had another beer. [Hefeweizen]. I noticed a man wearing a pro-2A shirt so I stood up and complimented him on it. He was probably in his mid 50s.

    Me: Nice shirt!
    Guy: Thanks! Check out the back! (Said 'If guns kill people... spoons made Rosie O'donnel fat, etc.)
    Me: Haha, very nice.
    Guy: Glad to see a young man like yourself exercising your rights!
    -I pointed to my Sig and nodded-
    Guy: Good for you! You should cover that up though.
    Me: (smiling and friendly) Why would I want to do that? I'm completely within my rights.
    Guy: You are, but you don't want people knowing you have that.
    Me: I'm okay with it.
    Guy: To each his own, right? :) Just be careful.
    Me: Yessir.
    Guy: -points to a corner of the room- See that guy there? He's one of Lancaster's finest.
    Me: Yeah, I walked in here right in front of him. I held the door for him and he gave me a nod.
    Guy: Yeah he's a good guy yadda yadda...

    He went on to talk about some guy on channel 48 and an event on 8/28. He asked if I had a computer and we talked about said guy's website. I asked him to check out DefensiveCarry.com and a local PA gun owners forum. He talked for a while and eventually said 'Well, now that I've completely ruined your dinner, I'll leave you alone. :) Have a nice night!'

    And that's my story. Twas a pleasant evening!
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Fort Bliss, Texas/Mesa, Arizona
    Posts
    4,301
    Wait, so you were open carrying and had a couple beers....while open carrying...in a bar...

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida Treasure Coast
    Posts
    3,211
    Quote Originally Posted by SpencerB View Post
    Wait, so you were open carrying and had a couple beers....while open carrying...in a bar...
    I think you are leaving yourself open to some potential problems if you ever have to use your weapon after consuming alcohol.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,450
    OP, keep in mind that to the casual observer you're not just a guy at a bar having one beer, you're a guy at the bar with a gun, DRINKING.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,838
    And to the rest of the thread, keep in mind that it is not against the law in PA to do exactly as the OP did. I am not going to second guess the man; if he feels he can carry responsibly and drink a beer, that is his business.

    Personally, I rather like PA's laws.

    Littlebr4d, the only question I have is this: if you like good beer, why in the world do you have a Natty Boh avatar?
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

  7. #6
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036
    One beer with a meal, then an hour later another single beer.

    All legal, yet the teetotalers are predicting the sky will fall.

    Get a grip.

    I done it with when on-duty LEOs were present. No laws broken.

    I've seen it done at FOP events. No laws broken.

    As always, your State's laws may vary.

    However, where legal, it's legal.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,115
    If there were an incident there would be plenty of witnesses that would gladly testify against you.

    All it takes is one beer and your judgement begins the impairment process. Lawyers use this all the time in traffic accidents. Even though you are not DUI your driving skills are less than what they could have been had you not had any beer at all.

    I think the guy was trying to give you good advice. Why flash the gun around? I really don't see the need for it.
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array jbum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Dandridge Tennessee
    Posts
    2,060
    Oh jeeesh

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    If there were an incident there would be plenty of witnesses that would gladly testify against you.

    All it takes is one beer and your judgement begins the impairment process. Lawyers use this all the time in traffic accidents. Even though you are not DUI your driving skills are less than what they could have been had you not had any beer at all.

    I think the guy was trying to give you good advice. Why flash the gun around? I really don't see the need for it.
    This.

    There really is no question as to lawfullness or not.
    It has to be assumed that to do so is well within the law for his state, or otherwise he'd have been acting unlawfully in front of a police (!) AND be telling an unlawful tale of action here on this forum whihc is not allowed per the rules.

    Lawfullness is not the question/issue posed by others here.
    It is a question of is this sensible, rational, beneficial (as representing us all be we open or concealed carry folk) and what about the ramifications of drinking had the OP actually found himself in a position in the immediate at the bar(s) where he might be placed in a position necessitating response.

    Such as this incident;



    Maryland state trooper shot, killed

    This post was updated at 11:30 a.m.

    An off-duty Maryland state police officer was shot and killed early Friday in the parking lot of a Forestville area restaurant, police said.

    Wesley Brown, 24, was shot shortly before 12:40 a.m. at the Applebee's Neighborhood Grill and Bar on Donnell Drive after an incident inside the restaurant involving a “disorderly” customer who refused to pay a bill, Col. Michael Blow told reporters.

    Full article - http://voices.washingtonpost.com/loc...icer-shot.html
    Considering that carry and functional use of a firearm does involve and require (to be functional and _accurate_) fine motor skill as well as clear minded judgment note the following commentary...

    Quote Originally Posted by University of North Carolina ~ Highway Safety Research Center
    Home > Safety Information > Alcohol Studies > Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC)

    Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC)

    BAC refers to the amount of alcohol contained in a person's blood. It is measured as weight per unit of volume. Typically this measurement is converted to a percentage such as 0.10%, which indicates that one-tenth of a percent of a person's blood is alcohol. Because alcohol in the blood travels directly to the brain, cognitive functioning is affected, resulting in increased risk of many kinds of injuries...

    ...Research on the effects of alcohol has found that many important cognitive functions involved in driving (e.g., information processing, decision making, eye-hand coordination) are at least somewhat degraded in many individuals at BACs as low as 0.04%.

    Source - http://www.hsrc.unc.edu/safety_info/...centration.cfm
    Now of course this is oriented toward operation of a motor vehicle and is building upward toward a BAC of .08%, which for an average normal male would generally require far more than two 12oz beers inside of two hours on a stomach full of food.
    But what if this male is also on meds as so many people these days are especially of his stated age group (50s). Alcohol whihc is a CNS depressant mixed with most other OTC and prescription drugs results in further CNS depression...Which results in a net effect of increased BAC type results even as his actual BAC might be much below the state limit for being under the influence never mind intoxicated.

    Alcohol affects individuals differently. Your blood alcohol level may be affected by your age, gender, physical condition, amount of food consumed and any drugs or medication. In addition, different drinks may contain different amounts of alcohol, so it's important to know how much and the concentration of alcohol you consume.

    Source - http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=52905
    Some common examples of drug to alcohol interactions that do result in CNS issues as well as reduction of cognitive (brain!) function can be found here...

    Not being specific to the OP only, read anyone of he above links and take note if you yourself personally use/are prescribed any of the items noted.
    Mix these with alcohol and even though you might 'feel' fine and okay, you may in fact be under the influence and/or suffering from a depressed CNS as well as reduced high order brain functioning. While carrying a gun with intent not to be a window dressing accessory but as an actual EMERGENCY USE rescue/safety tool.

    Think about that.

    Now think how others looking at you might think watching you drink while carrying, openly at that.
    In some states and among many agency's police themselves aren't even allowed (any more!) to drink and carry be they on duty or off.

    Serious business.

    As to the OP and his tale I'll hold my tongue and give him the benefit of a doubt that he was both acting well within state laws (a given) AND was not on any meds of any sort within a 72 hr. period leading up to the event detailed AND that he was in fact pretty much okay but clearly not utterly fine...Which is of course impossible for a human upon having input alcohol of any kind/degree into his body.

    - Janq will not carry while drinking, regardless of state law

    P.S. - Ironically before seeing this thread I was on Facebook and noted a friends thread discussing civilian carry.
    a person responded to her in the negative stating;

    "Yeah, not a big fan of carry laws, especially now that it's gotten to the point they are trying to say it's ok to carry in a bar. There's not much proof that carrying reduces crime. There is lots of proof that you're more likely to hurt yourself or a loved one with a gun than you are to defend yourself."

    So I replied to him directly via her posting with a series of facts as toward carry and 'bars' using MA laws as a specific example.
    Imagine my shock and furrowed brow when I go direct from there to here to then see this thread and focus. : |
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  11. #10
    Member Array littlebr4d's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Live in PA, Work in Harm City
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by varob View Post
    OP, keep in mind that to the casual observer you're not just a guy at a bar having one beer, you're a guy at the bar with a gun, DRINKING.
    If we don't exercise our rights and make it commonplace it will never be accepted by the casual observers. For the record, nobody freaked out, called the police, demanded to have me thrown out, etc from either establishment.

    Quote Originally Posted by kazzaerexys View Post
    And to the rest of the thread, keep in mind that it is not against the law in PA to do exactly as the OP did. I am not going to second guess the man; if he feels he can carry responsibly and drink a beer, that is his business.

    Personally, I rather like PA's laws. Macks, you might want to get your facts straight before telling the guy he is going to lose his permit.

    Littlebr4d, the only question I have is this: if you like good beer, why in the world do you have a Natty Boh avatar?
    Thank you for reaffirming that my actions were legal, sir. :) I have practically memorized the PA carry laws and keep a copy of most of them in my pocket and glove box. I am quite a beer snob if I do say so myself, loving any and all types of microbrews, but being from Baltimore, I'm pretty sure there were traces of Natty Boh in my bloodstream when I came into this world!

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    One beer with a meal, then an hour later another single beer.

    All legal, yet the teetotalers are predicting the sky will fall.

    Get a grip.

    I done it with when on-duty LEOs were present. No laws broken.

    I've seen it done at FOP events. No laws broken.

    As always, your State's laws may vary.

    However, where legal, it's legal.
    Thank you as well! As I stated, there was an off-duty LEO in the bar and I entered the establishment right before him, holding the door. I'm sure he saw my sidearm and gave me a friendly nod as I let him enter the brewery before me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    If there were an incident there would be plenty of witnesses that would gladly testify against you.

    All it takes is one beer and your judgement begins the impairment process. Lawyers use this all the time in traffic accidents. Even though you are not DUI your driving skills are less than what they could have been had you not had any beer at all.

    I think the guy was trying to give you good advice. Why flash the gun around? I really don't see the need for it.
    I agree that the impairment process starts at the first sip, and if there would have been an incident my judgment would have come into question. However, if I were faced with a life-threatening situation, I'd rather have it with me to use and blow a .06 than be dead. I certainly wouldn't say I was flashing it around. It was in a black leather OWB holster and all that was visible was the grip.

    I knew this scenario would raise some eyebrows, which is partially why I decided to post it.
    Last edited by SIXTO; July 30th, 2010 at 12:52 AM.
    Sfire likes this.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

  12. #11
    Member Array littlebr4d's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Live in PA, Work in Harm City
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    .
    Thank you for your well worded, thought out, researched and fact-based reply.

    In short, I completely understand what you're saying and to some degrees agree with you. I was 100% lawful in my actions and was not on any medication.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    Yeah LB I'm going to make my own personal choice to not jump all over you on this item.

    Honest.

    I am going to assume that you are an adult and thinking individual.
    I'm also going to assume that those in your party (wife & friends) are of the same feather and by that would apply peer pressure to you if they had thought you were in the least bit unsafe.
    As well do not take this the wrong way, but you got road miles on ya. Had you been my age (40) or younger, different story. You are at a been there done that stage of life. You know your body and mind.

    My post is only to be informational and not all meant nor intended to be a finger wag nor put down.
    You remain respectful in my book even as I personally would not have made the same choices.

    - Janq

    P.S. I notice you are a relatively new member to the board. Welcome!
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    @ Wits' End
    Posts
    2,805
    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    This.

    There really is no question as to lawfullness or not.
    It has to be assumed that to do so is well within the law for his state, or otherwise he'd have been acting unlawfully in front of a police (!) AND be telling an unlawful tale of action here on this forum whihc is not allowed per the rules.

    Lawfullness is not the question/issue posed by others here.
    It is a question of is this sensible, rational, beneficial (as representing us all be we open or concealed carry folk) and what about the ramifications of drinking had the OP actually found himself in a position in the immediate at the bar(s) where he might be placed in a position necessitating response.

    Such as this incident;



    Considering that carry and functional use of a firearm does involve and require (to be functional and _accurate_) fine motor skill as well as clear minded judgment note the following commentary...



    Now of course this is oriented toward operation of a motor vehicle and is building upward toward a BAC of .08%, which for an average normal male would generally require far more than two 12oz beers inside of two hours on a stomach full of food.
    But what if this male is also on meds as so many people these days are especially of his stated age group (50s). Alcohol whihc is a CNS depressant mixed with most other OTC and prescription drugs results in further CNS depression...Which results in a net effect of increased BAC type results even as his actual BAC might be much below the state limit for being under the influence never mind intoxicated.



    Some common examples of drug to alcohol interactions that do result in CNS issues as well as reduction of cognitive (brain!) function can be found here...



    Not being specific to the OP only, read anyone of he above links and take note if you yourself personally use/are prescribed any of the items noted.
    Mix these with alcohol and even though you might 'feel' fine and okay, you may in fact be under the influence and/or suffering from a depressed CNS as well as reduced high order brain functioning. While carrying a gun with intent not to be a window dressing accessory but as an actual EMERGENCY USE rescue/safety tool.

    Think about that.

    Now think how others looking at you might think watching you drink while carrying, openly at that.
    In some states and among many agency's police themselves aren't even allowed (any more!) to drink and carry be they on duty or off.

    Serious business.

    As to the OP and his tale I'll hold my tongue and give him the benefit of a doubt that he was both acting well within state laws (a given) AND was not on any meds of any sort within a 72 hr. period leading up to the event detailed AND that he was in fact pretty much okay but clearly not utterly fine...Which is of course impossible for a human upon having input alcohol of any kind/degree into his body.

    - Janq will not carry while drinking, regardless of state law

    P.S. - Ironically before seeing this thread I was on Facebook and noted a friends thread discussing civilian carry.
    a person responded to her in the negative stating;

    "Yeah, not a big fan of carry laws, especially now that it's gotten to the point they are trying to say it's ok to carry in a bar. There's not much proof that carrying reduces crime. There is lots of proof that you're more likely to hurt yourself or a loved one with a gun than you are to defend yourself."

    So I replied to him directly via her posting with a series of facts as toward carry and 'bars' using MA laws as a specific example.
    Imagine my shock and furrowed brow when I go direct from there to here to then see this thread and focus. : |
    Spot on, Janq, as usual!
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  15. #14
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    44,563
    I'll jump on this one, too!
    Having a beer with a meal here in FL is completely legal, and on occasion, I have enjoyed doing so. I see no problem with that. You certainly wouldn't say that I should 'feel' something because I had consumed a wee bit of alcohol with my meal?
    It's not something that I do often, but sometimes a cold beer with steak and lobster has to be the plan for the evening...I'm still armed, but you wouldn't see it.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    If you don't/would not feel anything then what is the purpose of drinking the alcohol to start?

    Why not rather select a cold water, cold soda or even a cold non-alcoholic 'beer'.
    Why? Because the intent toward drinking a beer/wine/alcoholic beverage is to in fact feel something.

    Otherwise there is no point to the exercise and dollar spent (whihc at restaurants and bars is often time 2 or more times store cost).
    We're all post HS & college mentality adults here and we know what the score is behind use of alcohol; Be it with a meal, on the rocks or straight with no chaser.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

Page 1 of 11 12345 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Help keep a cop killer behind bars.
    By fastk9dad in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: January 3rd, 2011, 09:57 AM
  2. Guns and bars
    By RTSteve in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: April 22nd, 2010, 01:41 PM
  3. Va. OC in Bars Question
    By Zsnake in forum Open Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: August 30th, 2009, 11:53 AM
  4. ABC news, CCW in Bars
    By Jmac00 in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: August 18th, 2009, 11:18 PM
  5. Firearms in bars, what to do
    By buckeye .45 in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: November 18th, 2006, 01:16 AM

Search tags for this page

conceal carry in iron hill lancaster

,

concealed carry odouls

,

connecticut 0.079 bac

,

connecticut below 0.079 bac

,

open carry nights in pa

Click on a term to search for related topics.