Utah - Open Carry question for ccw holders...

This is a discussion on Utah - Open Carry question for ccw holders... within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As I understand it in Utah a person without a ccw permit can "open carry" IF the handgun requires at least two actions to fire....... ...

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Thread: Utah - Open Carry question for ccw holders...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array FastDraw's Avatar
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    Utah - Open Carry question for ccw holders...

    As I understand it in Utah a person without a ccw permit can "open carry" IF the handgun requires at least two actions to fire....... For example raking the slide to chamber a round ..... then pulling the trigger....... Please correct me if I'm wrong...

    I also understand that a person who can legally carry concealed in Utah doesn't have to meet the "two action" requirement when open carrying.. Is this correct?

    Any discussion on this matter is appreciated.........

    Be Alert and Stay Safe

    FastDraw

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    You are correct on both counts. Check out opencarry.org for a full explaination of all state laws.
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
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    Senior Member Array Snowman23's Avatar
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    Yep...you are correct. 2 actions, rack slide & pull trigger. Full magazine inserted is ok...just not one in the chamber. If you have a permit....full mag and one in the tube, no problem. HOWEVER, with a revolver...the 2 actions from firing means you can't have a round under the hammer AND the next chamber over, essentially you would have to pull the trigger twice to get the gun to fire, 2 actions. That means to open carry a revolver, without a permit, you'd be limiting your capacity.

    Also, along the same line. Utah passed a law this past year that allows anyone who can legally possess a handgun to be able to keep it concealed & loaded in their vehicle without a permit.

    IANAL--Please confirm the accuracy of my statement...but I'm pretty confident this is accurate.

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    So with a SA revolver, does pulling the hammer back and pulling the trigger meet the requirement?

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    Senior Member Array FastDraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    You are correct on both counts. Check out opencarry.org for a full explaination of all state laws.
    Thanks........ I'll check out the site right after the Nascar race...........

    Be Alert and Stay Safe

    FastDraw

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    "Two actions" before firing to me means:
    1. Draw the Gun
    2. Present the Gun

    ~Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by nn View Post
    So with a SA revolver, does pulling the hammer back and pulling the trigger meet the requirement?
    This is the exact wording in the Utah statutes:

    76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded

    (1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.

    (2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.

    (3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the
    barrel or cylinders.
    Unfortunately, the cylinder under the hammer at rest on a revolver is considered the firing position (that's the way the law is interpreted in Utah - not my interpretation!) So, for a SA revolver, the cylinder under the hammer must be empty. It then meets the definition of both (1) and (2) above. For a DA revolver, the cylinder under the hammer and the next one in line must be empty to meet the definitions of both (1) and (2) above.

    "Two actions" before firing to me means:
    1. Draw the Gun
    2. Present the Gun

    ~Dan
    Unfortunately, that still would not satisfy requirement number (1) above.

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    The law is somewhat ambiguous. Here's a news article on the issue from KSL.com

    Police confront student carrying gun on UVU campus
    March 8th, 2010 @ 6:54pm
    OREM -- A student confronted by police for openly carrying a gun at Utah Valley University says he's within his rights. Now advocates on both sides say his story points to a problem in Utah law.

    The student posted on YouTube the confrontation he had with officers after they responded to a report of a man with a gun.

    Steven Gunn of the Utah Gun Violence Prevention Center says it points to a problematic gap in Utah law that has not been addressed.

    "I can't imagine what the reaction might be, well actually I can," he says, "of a student walking along the campus and seeing another student carrying a shotgun."

    Gunn says Utah's gun laws are vague and don't clearly state whether open carry is legal. He says a bill clarifying that issue needs to be drafted.

    The student told KSL he was not trying to make a fuss. He agreed to keep his gun concealed for now, but he doesn't feel he should have to.
    ~Coriantan~

    "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away." * "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight."

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    Member Array Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastDraw View Post
    As I understand it in Utah a person without a ccw permit can "open carry" IF the handgun requires at least two actions to fire....... For example raking the slide to chamber a round ..... then pulling the trigger....... Please correct me if I'm wrong...
    You are correct, but technically this only applies on "a public street", which unfortunately is not defined.

    76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
    (1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
    (a) in or on a vehicle, unless:
    (i) the vehicle is in the person's lawful possession; or
    (ii) the person is carrying the loaded firearm in a vehicle with the consent of the person lawfully in possession of the vehicle;
    (b) on a public street; or
    (c) in a posted prohibited area.
    (2) Subsection (1)(a) does not apply to a minor under 18 years of age, since a minor under 18 years of age may not carry a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle.
    (3) Notwithstanding Subsection (1)(a)(i) and (ii), a person may not possess a loaded rifle, shotgun, or muzzle-loading rifle in a vehicle.
    (4) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.
    Quote Originally Posted by FastDraw View Post
    I also understand that a person who can legally carry concealed in Utah doesn't have to meet the "two action" requirement when open carrying.. Is this correct?
    This is also correct.

    76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
    (1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
    (a) a United States marshal;
    (b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
    (c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
    (d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or
    (g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:
    (i) unloaded; and
    (ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.
    (2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
    (a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
    (b) by another state or county.
    Quote Originally Posted by coriantan View Post
    The law is somewhat ambiguous.
    No, it's not.
    Kevin Jensen
    Utah State Researcher,
    www.opencarry.org

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    Ex Member Array LCDR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coriantan
    The law is somewhat ambiguous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jensen View Post
    No, it's not.
    Ummm..... Kevin...... you admitted that it was:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jensen View Post
    You are correct, but technically this only applies on "a public street", which unfortunately is not defined.

  12. #11
    Member Array Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCDR View Post
    Ummm..... Kevin...... you admitted that it was:


    Not about that.

    About open carry being legal at all in Utah. Some people believe that since our permit is called a "Concealed Firearm Permit", that somehow concealment is a requirement, even though it is not codified.

    Also, some people believe that since there is no law that specifically reads "You may carry openly or concealed, it's your choice and we respect that!" that it suddenly becomes ambiguous.

    Wearing a pink t-shirt in Utah may be legal, but it's also ambiguous at best.
    Kevin Jensen
    Utah State Researcher,
    www.opencarry.org

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