Disarmed today by Las Vegas Metro officer

This is a discussion on Disarmed today by Las Vegas Metro officer within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have a friend who has gotten herself into a bad situation. She is a single lady, and she's very tiny (five-foot-nothing and 95 pounds). ...

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Thread: Disarmed today by Las Vegas Metro officer

  1. #1
    Member Array Las Vegan's Avatar
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    Disarmed today by Las Vegas Metro officer

    I have a friend who has gotten herself into a bad situation. She is a single lady, and she's very tiny (five-foot-nothing and 95 pounds). She lives by herself in an apartment a couple of blocks from me. A while back she started allowing a homeless guy to live in her garage because she felt sorry for him. Las Vegas being as hot as it is, he was soon hanging out inside her apartment to keep from roasting during the day, and because she travels she gave him a key to the place. He started "borrowing" her car when she wasn't home, and she never said anything to him about it because, again, she felt sorry for him and she didn't want to be "mean" (her words).

    Last week things got really out of hand (his friends hanging out with him in her apartment, items going missing, etc.), one thing led to another, and he grabbed her by the neck and said that he was going to kill her. Obviously the guy is a complete whack job. She didn't want to call the police, but I insisted on changing all of her locks.

    This morning she called me to say that last night he came to her door with a bow and arrow (yeah, whack job!) and when she wouldn't unlock the door for him, he went out to the parking lot and slashed two of her car's tires and then went back to "his" garage. I jumped in the car to head over there and try to convince her again to call the police, and if not at least get her out of there. After calling me, she called her brother, and he had enough sense to call the police and meet them there at her place.

    When I got there the brother, two Metro officers, and the whack job where out in the parking lot, with the whack job in cuffs. I went to my friend's apartment and she told me that the police hadn't come to talk with her yet. Soon they came to her door and asked her to come outside and talk with them, and her brother came inside to wait with me. I assume at this point the whack job was in the cruiser still in cuffs.

    My friend's brother suggested that I take her away when she was done with the police, and I said that I would go and wait for her by my car. This is when it got personal with me.

    I opened her front door to see her and the two cops standing right there. The walkway is very narrow, and I said to the cops, "Is it ok if I walk past?" I had to ask because they would have to step aside for me to get through. One of them said to go ahead, and I walked by them. Because of where they were standing, I had to walk by them with my right side to them. That's when they noticed that I was OCing my Star 30M in a belt holster. One of them told me to stop and asked me where I was going. I said that I was going to my car to leave. Then he asked me if I had any "bad intentions." I said, "No sir. I'm just going to my car." He said, "I can't have you walking around with a gun in a volatile situation. Come here."

    I walked towards him and he said, "Turn around." I said, "Excuse me?" and his partner said, "He wants you to turn around." I turned my back to him and he reached forward, unsnapped my holster, and disarmed me. I turned around to see him remove the magazine, clear the chamber, and pocket the mag and spare round. He stood there with my handgun in his hand with the slide racked back, and he said, "You can go now. You can get this back later."

    I said, "How am I supposed to get that back?" At this point he kicked into Alpha Male, and he said (a bit loud and less than politely), "Don't worry about it. You can get it later." I smiled and said, "All I'm asking for is instructions. If you want me to get that back later, what do I need to do?"

    He said, "Are you leaving now?" Even though this had already been explained to him twice, I repeated, "Yes." Seeming frustrated, he handed me the handgun with the slide open, the mag and round still in his pocket, and said, "Go back inside." I took the gun and did as he said. A few minutes later he opened the front door and walked in, handed me the magazine and round, and walked back out. He didn't say to leave the gun unloaded, or to leave it off of my belt, or any other instructions.

    Without any word from him, I put the round back in the magazine and put the magazine in my front pocket, and then put the gun back in its holster. A little while later they were done with my friend. They declined to arrest the whack job, but they took a report from my friend and gave her instructions on how to file for a TRO (temporary restraining order). When my friend was ready, I went outside to get my car, and I saw the two cops standing next to their car with the nutjob standing with them. It was far enough away that I couldn't see if he was still in cuffs, but it looked like he wasn't, and of course they had already said that they weren't going to arrest him.

    So the situation stands with him still on the apartment complex property, still living in the garage, and my friend still having to come and go from her home knowing that the psycho is still around.

    So, now about me.

    First let me say that I would have handled my interaction with the cops completely differently if my friend was not involved. The last thing I wanted to do was make her situation worse, although as it turned out the cops didn't really do much for her anyway.

    But let's look at what they did do with me. They were there for what amounted to (in their eyes) a domestic dispute. While they are talking to the lady in question, a guy walks out of her apartment with a gun. The suspect is out in the parking lot in their car and unattended. I can understand their concern.

    I find it odd that the one officer chose to disarm me without telling me what he was about to do. I don't have to tell you that the "retain your weapon at any cost" reflexes kick in hard when that happens and you are not expecting it.

    Next consider that he never asked me for ID. If you had just disarmed a citizen and then told him to leave and collect his firearm "later," wouldn't you at least ask him his name? Similar to other situations involving armed citizens and Metro, I have to wonder about the training that they receive. I would think that there would be a standard procedure for handling a situation like this one.

    It didn't occur to me until later that all I had to do before leaving the apartment to walk past the police officers was to conceal my gun by untucking my shirt and pulling it over the holster. Yes, I have a permit and yes it was in my wallet. I would have been legal, and I would have avoided my first interaction with the police over the fact that I carry.

    Finally, go ahead and kick me in the pants about not recording. I have a perfectly functional voice recorder that I purchased for exactly this type of situation, but thinking about getting to my friend after she called me I was in "oh 5h!t" mode and didn't think to grab it. Very stupid on my part. My philosophy is "Always Carry, Always Record," and I blew it.

    I welcome any questions, comments, suggestions, or discussion.

    (by the way, my friend is fine for now. She was feeling a bit sheepish after having to sit through another lecture from me, and she's now sleeping soundly on my couch)

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  3. #2
    Member Array mcgyver210's Avatar
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    It is always easy for us to say always record but just doesn't always work the way we want it to.

    Now I have to say I fully understand why he chose to disarm you since you seemed as though you could have been involved in someway exiting the Appt.

    But to disarm you & refuse to tell you how to recover your confiscated gun amounts to theft IMO although maybe not in the legal sense. I would have immediately called 911 to have a record of the fact he refused to tell you how to recover your weapon & had no way of even knowing who to give it back to later although with his attitude you didn't even know when later was.

    Even if he was busy he should have asked you to wait rather than just confiscate your weapon with no instructions, proof etc. I definitely wouldn't have just trusted the LEO with my weapon anymore than he would me with his. I would look at it as I don't know this guy from Adam so I wouldn't trust him at all no matter who he is. Just to clarify I don't trust anyone but my Wife & kid fully.

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    Attorney time...let your fingers to the walking, and your attorney do the talking.
    I believe you will be making that officer do some splainin' to his supervisors.
    The LEO should have asked for some I.D. before proceeding to involve you in his investigation...he needs a better plan to deal with the public.OMO
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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    otoh retsupt, if i were to encounter that situation i would handle it the same way
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    I think the only thing I would have done differently is just to remove my gun when I see police. The main reason I carry is because police can't be everywhere. However, the police were there. I would have felt relatively safe from the nut job and would have disarmed just to avoid confrontation. I realize this is not most people's chain of thought or belief, but its just me.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

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    I am not saying anything bad about the OP or any posters, I was not there so I dont know what happened this is just my opinion to which I am entitled.

    Ok I know I will get flamed for this one but......Call the attorney for what? What damages has the OP suffered? What constitutional violation has occured?

    A uniformed officer disarmed a witness/unk subject at the scene of a domestic, or whatever you want to call it, situation which he is absolutely, positively, without a doubt allowed to do for his safety. Was he less than polite, sounds like it from the OP but I wasn't there. Did the OP have his ego/pride/feelings hurt or violated who knows. Maybe I am just thicker skinned than most but this stuff of "He touched my crayon box and I'm telling daddy" is getting a little bit out of hand. Would I, when working the streets, or another officer have done it different sure its possible but would have to be there and take in the whole picture. But just my opinion.
    As far as the friend is concerned it was her mistake that led to the incident occuring in the first place so I am very glad she is ok. She is very lucky she was not robbed, sexually assaulted and the victim of a homicide. Hopefully she has learned from this and the guy will just leave her alone but dont count on it.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    I also would have informed the officers immediately that I am armed, OC or CC. It may not be a "must inform", but informing the LEOs before they see the gun goes a long way.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcgyver210 View Post
    It is always easy for us to say always record but just doesn't always work the way we want it to.

    Now I have to say I fully understand why he chose to disarm you since you seemed as though you could have been involved in someway exiting the Appt.

    But to disarm you & refuse to tell you how to recover your confiscated gun amounts to theft IMO although maybe not in the legal sense. I would have immediately called 911 to have a record of the fact he refused to tell you how to recover your weapon & had no way of even knowing who to give it back to later although with his attitude you didn't even know when later was.

    Even if he was busy he should have asked you to wait rather than just confiscate your weapon with no instructions, proof etc. I definitely wouldn't have just trusted the LEO with my weapon anymore than he would me with his. I would look at it as I don't know this guy from Adam so I wouldn't trust him at all no matter who he is. Just to clarify I don't trust anyone but my Wife & kid fully.
    It's not a matter of whether you trust him or not - your agreement is not needed for him to do his job.

    He's on a suspected crime scene, and some random individual turns up armed. Of course he's going to disarm the random individual while they're trying to figure out what is going on.

    There's no lawsuit here, there's no offense here, there's absolutely no need for covert recordings, 911 calls, or attorneys, IMHO.

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    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    I would always cooperate with LEOs. I've learned this the hard way in many fights with my kids' mother. Cooperate with LEOs and if you have an issue with one of them, make a complaint later to proper authorities.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

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    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Yup, I'd chalk this one up to the pros of going concealed..... an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, IMB anyway.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

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    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    He's on a suspected crime scene, and some random individual turns up armed. Of course he's going to disarm the random individual while they're trying to figure out what is going on.
    Agreed. Don't OC around cops investigating a domestic disturbance. This was bad judgement on the OP's part. Conceal the weapon or leave it in the car. Cops are on the scene, perp is in custody, no need for the firearm. Introducing it into this highly volatile situation created a problem.

    The girlfriend here needs a complete re-think. "Adopting" a homeless person like a stray puppy is a really, really bad idea.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    I dont think he was upset about being disarmed... the method used and the "how the hell do I get my gun back?" issue seems to be the primary issue. I would certainly not be surprised to be disarmed in a situation like that... in fact I would be surprised if I wasn't. The officer's other choice may have been to escort the OP to his car and watch him leave (since he said he was going to anyway). It makes perfect sense to me that he wanted the armed OP away from the BG during a domestic dispute. I think the smile and calm attitude expressed by the OP went a looooong way to defusing the officer's fear/suspicion.

    Well done I say... only thing I would have maybe done different is pull out my shirt and cover it up.
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    While he could have been more tactful, I feel the LEO was within reason to detain the firearm while on the scene.
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    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    Yup, I'd chalk this one up to the pros of going concealed..... an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, IMB anyway.
    I agree with Gottabkiddin on this. 99% of the time I conceal rather than OC and with cops present, I definitely would have kept it under wraps. OC in front of cops is just asking for it.
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    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    Agreed. Don't OC around cops investigating a domestic disturbance. This was bad judgement on the OP's part. Conceal the weapon or leave it in the car. Cops are on the scene, perp is in custody, no need for the firearm. Introducing it into this highly volatile situation created a problem.

    The girlfriend here needs a complete re-think. "Adopting" a homeless person like a stray puppy is a really, really bad idea.
    Some people can't help it. I'm one of them. Its just in their nature to help people. Yes, I've gotten in trouble for helping people and so has my father, but the good always outweighs the bad. If she's like me, she just wants to help people out, even if it means sacrificing some security.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

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