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Is a handgun in an IWB holster with the grip exposed considered open carry?

36K views 48 replies 30 participants last post by  CommonCents 
#1 ·
It's as simple as that. How much of the handgun has to be exposed for it to be considered open carry?

An OWB holster may conceal the entire slide and still be used for open carry, correct?

So, is it okay for a person to use an IWB holster with your shirt tucked behind the grip and consider it open carry.

For example, if you are CC and your shirt slips behind your grip, in a state in which OC is legal, are you guilty of not CC properly or are you simply OC ?
 
#2 ·
A gun is either exposed or not; there's no degree. An IWB with a shirt tucked in behind it is open carry. In FL, concealed is defined as concealed from "ordinary view." FL has limited OC (to/from hunting/fishing only) so having the shirt "slip" behind the gun, exposing it to "ordinary view" would put you in violation.

In the last situation you give, what difference would it make, if both CC and OC are legal? None, I say.
 
#4 ·
It's as simple as that. How much of the handgun has to be exposed for it to be considered open carry?
Your state's particular statutes should clearly define this. Generally, the requirements for the carry license/permit will designate what constitutes "concealment" or "concealed." And if it's not concealed, then it's openly carried.

In Oregon, for example, open carry is legal by any non-felon adult (the regular restrictions). Some municipalities have certain restrictions for people not following the concealed-carry guidelines, but otherwise open carry is perfectly legal. If carrying with a CHL, the carrier has the right to carry either openly or concealed. Since it's an open carry state, people don't regularly get cuffed-and-stuffed merely for having a bit of grip or muzzle peeking out from one's clothing.

But in some states, concealed means exactly that. If anyone sees anything, up to an including even the "printing" of the outline of the gun, you're liable to get your butt in a sling. So, know your state's laws very well in this regard. In Delaware, it is a concealed carry permit, so be sure to conceal it completely unless you find that doing otherwise is legal.

In a quick scan of Delaware Title 11, Chapter 5, SubChapters 1441-1469, I didn't find any definition of "concealed" or "open carry" that would distinguish between the two. You could contact the DE attorney general's office, for clarification. I'd suggest asking a competent attorney who knows the licensed carry of firearms statutes and use-of-force statutes in your state. The NRA also has a guide to the states' requirements: ie, Delaware's Firearms Laws.
 
#36 ·
Your state's particular statutes should clearly define this. Generally, the requirements for the carry license/permit will designate what constitutes "concealment" or "concealed." And if it's not concealed, then it's openly carried.

In Oregon, for example, open carry is legal by any non-felon adult (the regular restrictions). Some municipalities have certain restrictions for people not following the concealed-carry guidelines, but otherwise open carry is perfectly legal. If carrying with a CHL, the carrier has the right to carry either openly or concealed. Since it's an open carry state, people don't regularly get cuffed-and-stuffed merely for having a bit of grip or muzzle peeking out from one's clothing.

But in some states, concealed means exactly that. If anyone sees anything, up to an including even the "printing" of the outline of the gun, you're liable to get your butt in a sling. So, know your state's laws very well in this regard. In Delaware, it is a concealed carry permit, so be sure to conceal it completely unless you find that doing otherwise is legal.

In a quick scan of Delaware Title 11, Chapter 5, SubChapters 1441-1469, I didn't find any definition of "concealed" or "open carry" that would distinguish between the two. You could contact the DE attorney general's office, for clarification. I'd suggest asking a competent attorney who knows the licensed carry of firearms statutes and use-of-force statutes in your state. The NRA also has a guide to the states' requirements: ie, Delaware's Firearms Laws.
I have a question specific to Oregon. I have a CA cc permit. I plan to visit my dad in a couple weeks. If I’m using an appendix iwb AND TUCK MY SHIRT BEHIND THE FIREARM, does it qualify as open carry? Or since the holster is partially concealed, would I be in breach of any laws you’re aware of?
 
#5 ·
This is why I love living in Maine. I can carry either way and not worry about it. If I happen to step outside of my vehicle with my shirt tucked in between my holster and my Glock 27 is exposed I'm not breaking any laws. I'm just OC'ing at that point in time but I can also reach back and un-tuck and cover my Glock and I still have nothing to worry about.
 
#9 ·
This is why I love living in Maine. I can carry either way and not worry about it. If I happen to step outside of my vehicle with my shirt tucked in between my holster and my Glock 27 is exposed I'm not breaking any laws. I'm just OC'ing at that point in time but I can also reach back and un-tuck and cover my Glock and I still have nothing to worry about.
That is exactly what I'm saying. It can be concealed, but if it is in view, then it is open carry and still legal, right? RIGHT! In DE as far as I understand.
 
#18 ·
HAHAHAHAHA! In the pics showing various carry forms....

"Drop leg (tactical) holster (Not recommended unless you are Jack Bauer)"
 
#8 ·
In Virginia ,as long as you have a CHP, it doesn't matter which mode of carry you use. I OC using both IWB and OWB holsters. As long as it is recognizable as a gun it is considered OC.
 
#11 ·
In Louisiana, if any part of the handgun is recognized as such, then its considered OC. However, CC is legal with CHL and OC is legal regardless, so it wouldn't matter, similar to what "WhoWeBePart1" said.
 
#13 ·
This question is why I have separate OC and CC holsters. Personally, it's all or nothing for me. There are guys in NC that have done just that with a CBST. I guess it's tough for a LEO to say, "I see your gun, your concealing it." I just would rather be very clear that I'm OC'ing. The only time I tuck my shirt behind my CC holster is in the car. To each his own though.
 
#16 ·
I would still say, even if you "shirt flips behind the gun" while it's in your waistband...It's concealed (you're concealing the muzzle, part of the frame, and slide)
If you have NO permit, as your law states, IN DEALAWARE then open carry it, in a holster on your belt, and not try to test the waters.
If you have a permit, as your state (IN DEALAWARE) requires for CC, then I don't think it's going to matter either way, even if your "shirt flips over your grip" while it's in your waistband.
Point is, if you're testing the waters, it's a slippery slope, and is it really worth it?
Just my .02 worth here
 
#26 ·
I would still say, even if you "shirt flips behind the gun" while it's in your waistband...It's concealed (you're concealing the muzzle, part of the frame, and slide) If you have NO permit, as your law states, IN DEALAWARE then open carry it, in a holster on your belt, and not try to test the waters.
If you have a permit, as your state (IN DEALAWARE) requires for CC, then I don't think it's going to matter either way, even if your "shirt flips over your grip" while it's in your waistband.
Point is, if you're testing the waters, it's a slippery slope, and is it really worth it?
Just my .02 worth here
concealing a portion of a gun is not concealing the gun...just because you cant see the slide or the hole in the end of the barrel doesnt mean the gun is concealed...and there is no such thing as partially concealed...it is black or white...anty portion of the gun is the gun and if it is not concealed it is not concealed...period...

not being concealed does not mean the gun is open carried in some states that allow open carry...some states require at least a particular amount of exposure to consider the gun openly carried...

we dont make the rules or count on assumptions...the rules are clearly stated and should be adhered to...
 
#17 ·
Nevada law (IANAL):

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-202.html#NRS202Sec3653
Concealed Firearms
NRS 202.3653 Definitions. As used in NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, unless the context otherwise requires:
1. “Concealed firearm” means a loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver or other firearm which is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.
=========================================================

Seems obvious to me.

Ken
 
#19 ·
Ah yes, Confucius say "what appears to be obvious may not be so obvious."

He asked How much of the handgun has to be exposed for it to be considered open carry? , not concealed carry.
 
#21 ·
In South Dakota, if any part of the firearm is visible it is not concealed. Open carry is legal in SD, but the law comes into play if you're transporting a loaded handgun in a vehicle without a permit. As long as any part of the firearm is visible, it's legal. If you have a carry permit it doesn't matter if the gun is visible or not.
 
#23 ·
In NC if the gun is covered its concealed and as long as you can see the gun and make it out its open no such thing as printing in NC
 
#25 ·
Most courts hold that a weapon is concealed if it is hidden from the "ordinary observation" or the "ordinary sight" of another person. United States v. Flum, 518 F.2d 39, 45 (8th Cir. 1975); McKee v. State, 488 P.2d 1039, 1042 (Alaska 1971); Ensor, 403 So. 2d at 353-54.

Straight from the Arizona Supreme Court.

So more than likely your argument that the grip was exposed would not meet the definition of concealed and would be considered open carry. This most likely will depend on the circumstances though. For example, a black grip sticking out of your black jeans at nighttime might not be in the ordinary observation or ordinary sight of someone else. However if you are wearing khakis and the grip is showing during the day you are probably not concealed and are open carrying.

I wouldn't play around with the definition of concealed unless your state cleary defines it. I would just get a holster like a serpa without my shirt hanging over the gun to be safe. I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig the state goes after trying to determine whether or not an exposed grip is enough to get you.
 
#35 ·
I would think that any part of the gun being visible would constitute open carry. But I can also see that if there were places that one was required to open carry someone may claim that concealing any part of the gun is "concealed carry". You just can't win for losing!

Now that VA not longer requires OC in restaurants that serve alcohol, does anyone know of other places where OC is required?
 
#38 ·
Below is a basic definition of a concealed weapon. Some will say “visible to common observation “ I would venture to say, if it isn’t fully visible. It might be considered concealed. A firearm carried in a holster on the belt is not considered concealed because the gun is not hidden from common observation. Cover it with a shirt and it is then considered concealed. States vary to some degree. Most cases it’s best to contact the State Police and see what they define concealed. Good luck.😎



Definition of concealed. A firearm or dangerous weapon is concealed if it is carried in such a manner as to not be discernible by the ordinary observation of a passerby. There is no requirement that there be absolute invisibility of the firearm or dangerous weapon, merely that it not be ordinarily discernible.
 
#41 ·
If any part is exposed, the handgun is open to view. The laws will vary state to state as to whether it is allowed or not. With a TN enhanced HCP, it is allowed. With a TN concealed only HCP it is not.
 
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