MPD Responds to Open Carry Incident

MPD Responds to Open Carry Incident

This is a discussion on MPD Responds to Open Carry Incident within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; http://www.nbc15.com/news/headlines/103538179.html Posted Wednesday, September 22, 2010 --- 11:27 a.m. Press Release from the Madison Police Department: The Madison Police Department (MPD) has conducted a review ...

Page 1 of 12 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 173

Thread: MPD Responds to Open Carry Incident

  1. #1
    Member Array chivvalry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    454

    MPD Responds to Open Carry Incident

    http://www.nbc15.com/news/headlines/103538179.html

    Posted Wednesday, September 22, 2010 --- 11:27 a.m.

    Press Release from the Madison Police Department:

    The Madison Police Department (MPD) has conducted a review of an incident that took place this past Saturday night at Culver's Frozen Custard restaurant, 4301 East Towne Blvd. Based upon the further investigation, Chief Noble Wray has concluded the appropriate charge for all 5 armed individuals is Disorderly Conduct (DC). Accordingly, DC citations will be issued, and Obstructing a Peace Officer tickets given to two will be rescinded.

    Officers were dispatched to the restaurant around 6:50 p.m. after a 62-year old Madison woman called 911. She had just observed several men with handguns in holsters enter the crowded Culver's restaurant. In her initial statement to officers, she stated" I didn't know what the law was, and I thought I should at least call so the police can come and check it out cause I didn't want to be that one person that saw guns and didn't call, and then have something terrible happen". In a follow-up interview with detectives, she further stated that she thought it was very odd that these individuals with guns would be at a family place. She noted she felt somewhat "rattled" and also "felt uneasy" about the subjects having the handguns at the family restaurant. She went on to say that they all appeared calm, but noted "people who shoot up restaurants also look calm before it happens." She did state that she was very concerned that if she didn't make the call and something did happen, she would feel horrible.

    The MPD made contact Saturday night with the five men who were openly carrying handguns. Upon officers' requests, three of five produced identification so that officers could determine they were not convicted criminals. Two of five refused to produce identification and were issued Obstructing a Peace Officer citations. It was determined they were not felons and handguns were returned.

    The officers were faced with an ambiguous situation. When responding to investigate suspicious - or potentially dangerous - circumstances, police must:

    • Preserve or Restore Order and Public Safety.
    • Investigate whether a crime had been committed, was being committed, or was about to be committed.
    • Protect the Constitutional Rights of those involved.

    The complainant's statement clearly reveals that she recognized the potential for violence from these armed men, and it was this fear that motivated her call to police. On the basis of this fact, the MPD will be rescinding the 2 obstructing citations. They were issued in error. Instead, citations for City Ordinance DC will be given to those who engaged in the behavior that led to the need for police to be called.

    The DC statute does not require an actual disturbance take place, only that conduct in question is of a type that tends to cause or provoke a disturbance

    Chief Wray wants to make clear: It is the department's wish that concerned citizens call 911 when they see armed subjects.

    Following Saturday's incident, he sent an internal memo to all officers:

    MPD officers regularly are dispatched to reports of individuals who are armed with firearms. When responding to these incidents, officers should:

    • Approach the suspect using the proper tactical response. The individual should be contacted, controlled, and frisked for weapons if appropriate. Officers should separate the suspect from any weapons in his/her possession during the encounter.

    • Officers should conduct a thorough investigation to determine whether any violations of state statute or city ordinance have occurred. Some of the relevant offenses to consider include:
    • Carrying a Concealed Weapon (§941.23)
    • Disorderly Conduct (§947.01)
    • Carrying a Firearm in Public Building (§941.235)
    • Carrying Handgun Where Alcohol Beverages May be Sold and Consumed (§941.237)
    • Being a Felon in Possession of a Firearm (§941.29)
    • Safe Use and Transportation of Firearms (§167.31)
    • Possession of Short-Barreled Shotgun or Short-Barreled Rifle (§941.28)
    • Gun-free School Zones (§948.605)
    • Possession of a Dangerous Weapon by a Person Under 18 (§948.60)
    • Endangering Safety by Use of Dangerous Weapon (§941.20)

    • Officers should verify that the firearm is not stolen, and attempt to verify that the person possessing the firearm is not legally barred from doing so (as a felon, due to an injunction, etc.). However, someone who has been detained is not legally obligated to provide identification to officers if no criminal ordinance violations have occurred. A person who refuses to provide identification should not be arrested for obstructing; however, if probable cause for another offense exists the suspect should be arrested for that offense and can then be identified during the citation or booking process.

    • When responding to incidents involving subjects openly carrying firearms in public places, officers should investigate to determine whether the suspect's actions caused or were likely to cause a disturbance. The primary factors to be considered include the location, time of day and witness/bystander perceptions. Remember that the disorderly conduct statute does not require that an actual disturbance take place, only that the conduct in question be of a type that tends to cause or provoke a disturbance.

    • It is my expectation that MPD officers encountering individuals who are armed with firearms in public places will take a pro-enforcement approach. If the investigation shows probable cause for a violation, the suspect should be arrested or cited.
    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    You are not paranoid if They are actually out to get you, however, They probably are not and you probably are.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    536
    So, in the People's Republic of Madison, if someone "fears" a gun...that is enough to charge Disorderly Conduct...
    VCDL Member
    "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
    Theodore Roosevelt

  3. #3
    Member
    Array IWLAFART's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Martinsburg, WV
    Posts
    335
    Did not see what the state was and if OC is allowed. When the officers arrived on the scene and requested ID I see no reason not to show the officers ID to allow a felony check. I would try to be as helpful as I could if I was in that situation. Again that is why I carry concealed.
    Member:USCCA, NRA, GOA, WVCDL
    U.S. Navy vet 1955-1959, USS Dashiell DD 659. Glock 19, Ruger LCP, Ruger .357 Mag.
    When you are at the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on.

  4. #4
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    I see a lawsuit in the near future.

    Biker

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Fort Bliss, Texas/Mesa, Arizona
    Posts
    4,485
    I assume Madison, Wisconsin? So Wisconsin does not issue CCW permits but open carry is legal there, I smell a lawsuit as well.
    Operation Enduring Freedom Veteran

  6. #6
    Member Array chivvalry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    454
    Wisconsin and OC is legal. It is NOT legal for an officer to accost someone like this and demand their papers. This chief of police just declared war on the bill of rights... most specifically the 2nd amendment but he is directing his officers to violate several others as well.
    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    You are not paranoid if They are actually out to get you, however, They probably are not and you probably are.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    4,364
    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I see a lawsuit in the near future.

    Biker
    Agreed... Where does it stop... "but officer...I saw a goth!" or "but I saw a ugly person... THAT one over there...ARREST THEM!"
    I see fat people.
    Walking around like regular people. They don't see each other. They only see what they want to eat. They don't know they're fat
    I'm afraid. They might eat me. Arrest them please.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The western edge of The Confederacy
    Posts
    2,198
    Makes me wish I had a law office in Madison.
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
    Edge of Darkness

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,838
    More importantly (and somebody please correct me if I am misremembering), Wisconsin is the state where the OC issue was resolved by a published opinion of the State Attorney General that said not only is open carry not forbidden by the law, but that the mere carrying of a legally owned gun is not probable cause for any further police involvement.
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

  10. #10
    Member Array chivvalry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    454
    Quote Originally Posted by kazzaerexys View Post
    More importantly (and somebody please correct me if I am misremembering), Wisconsin is the state where the OC issue was resolved by a published opinion of the State Attorney General that said not only is open carry not forbidden by the law, but that the mere carrying of a legally owned gun is not probable cause for any further police involvement.
    I do believe you are correct in that remembrance.
    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    You are not paranoid if They are actually out to get you, however, They probably are not and you probably are.

  11. #11
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hiding inside a bottle of Jim Beam Black.
    Posts
    17,572
    Lawsuit. Police Chief is trying to use the "disorderly conduct" as a catch-all to discourage OC. From what the article said, there was no disorderly conduct. Some people fear flying. Does that mean every pilot approaching the airport is acting "disorderly" toward the scaredy cats on the ground?

    Hello, NRA--are you out there? ACLU?
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  12. #12
    Moderator
    Array gasmitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    11,215
    A quick check of the Madison, WI web site shows a staff of 438. On any day shift, I think it would be fair to assume that no more than 100 or so patrol officers would be on duty. Thus I think what the fine City of Madison needs is a gathering of about 200 upstanding citizens all openly carrying arms.

    Better yet, during one shift, target maybe 30 eating establishments across Madison and have 5-10 folks show up at each place at a certain hour, each participant carrying openly. Do this once a week for a month until Chief Noble Wray realizes that his erroneous beliefs are resulting in public service being overtaxed senselessly to "investigate" non-crimes.
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member
    NROI Chief Range Officer

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    28,271
    Open-carry "incident." It should have been called, instead, an Ignorant Citizen Training Exercise. That some silly twit is unaware of the laws doesn't equal crime on the part of the people she's fearful of, without any justification to be fearful due to their (lack of) breach of law. Apparently, their crime was that she called while ignorant of what's what. What a crime: guilty if charged. No wonder justice is in the toilet.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #14
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    45,474
    I'm sure that this will eventually be settled...financially...when the mayor opens the city's wallet.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,179
    Something tells me as soon as a City Attorney gets hold of it the Chief is gonna get a lesson in Open Carry law.LEO's are supposed to enforce the law,not make them up as they see fit
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

Page 1 of 12 1234511 ... LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. The Devil Responds to Pat Robertson on Haiti
    By UnklFungus in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: January 20th, 2010, 08:55 PM
  2. Road rage incident in my home town - Another reason to carry
    By Major G in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: November 13th, 2009, 09:31 AM
  3. School Shootings-Government responds?
    By AH in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: March 14th, 2008, 07:09 PM
  4. Texas Senator Responds!
    By Rock and Glock in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: March 4th, 2008, 02:03 AM
  5. Bob Barr responds to Bloomberg
    By AirForceShooter in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 24th, 2006, 01:26 PM

Search tags for this page

minnesota open carry incidents
,
open carry
,

open carry incident

,
open carry incident louisiana
,
open carry incidents
,
open carry police harassment in mason michigan
,
open carry police incidents 2011
,
open+carry+police+harassment+in+mason michigan
,

shawn winrich

,

shawn winrich open carry

,
store policy political statement
,
what places you cannot open carry in louisiana
Click on a term to search for related topics.