Wisconsin Carry, Inc fast-tracking Open Carrry lawsuit against Madison Police Dept

This is a discussion on Wisconsin Carry, Inc fast-tracking Open Carrry lawsuit against Madison Police Dept within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; from Madison's own press release on obligation to provide ID • Officers should verify that the firearm is not stolen, and attempt to verify that ...

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 27 of 27
Like Tree2Likes

Thread: Wisconsin Carry, Inc fast-tracking Open Carrry lawsuit against Madison Police Dept

  1. #16
    New Member Array UPpatriot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Marquette, MI
    Posts
    4
    from Madison's own press release on obligation to provide ID

    • Officers should verify that the firearm is not stolen, and attempt to verify that the person possessing the firearm is not legally barred from doing so (as a felon, due to an injunction, etc.). However, someone who has been detained is not legally obligated to provide identification to officers if no criminal ordinance violations have occurred. A person who refuses to provide identification should not be arrested for obstructing; however, if probable cause for another offense exists the suspect should be arrested for that offense and can then be identified during the citation or booking process.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    Member Array Woodguru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Placerville, Ca
    Posts
    19
    Quite frankly had the two who refused to show ID simply showed it to the cops you more than likely would have been on your way with no charges whatsoever including the disorderly.

    There's such a thing as making a point beyond where it needs to be made.

    Quite frankly I don't have a problem with identifying someone carrying a gun to make sure they are not a felon and illegally possessing one. The next step of open carry is criminals open carrying. As a cop I'd want to know if a person carrying is a felon, as a citizen, same deal. You have to show ID to buy a gun, what difference does it make to show ID if you want to carry it?

  4. #18
    Member
    Array Coder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    446
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodguru View Post
    Quite frankly had the two who refused to show ID simply showed it to the cops you more than likely would have been on your way with no charges whatsoever including the disorderly.

    There's such a thing as making a point beyond where it needs to be made.

    Quite frankly I don't have a problem with identifying someone carrying a gun to make sure they are not a felon and illegally possessing one. The next step of open carry is criminals open carrying. As a cop I'd want to know if a person carrying is a felon, as a citizen, same deal. You have to show ID to buy a gun, what difference does it make to show ID if you want to carry it?
    I understand where you are coming from but I respectfully disagree. Law abiding citizens have the right to not be hassled by the police. I would consider surrendering some of my rights if there was compelling evidence that doing so would solve some huge problem. There isn't any in this case.

    This chief's behavior is especially bad because he has instructed all his officers to ID any open carrier that they see. Totally out of line IMO.
    We're all in favor of reducing violent crime. It's just that pro-gunners have a method that is proven effective. Anti-gunners don't.
    ---
    John Moses Browning day is January 24th, 2011

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Kommie-fornia-stan
    Posts
    7,069
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodguru View Post
    Quite frankly had the two who refused to show ID simply showed it to the cops you more than likely would have been on your way with no charges whatsoever including the disorderly.

    There's such a thing as making a point beyond where it needs to be made.

    Quite frankly I don't have a problem with identifying someone carrying a gun to make sure they are not a felon and illegally possessing one. The next step of open carry is criminals open carrying. As a cop I'd want to know if a person carrying is a felon, as a citizen, same deal. You have to show ID to buy a gun, what difference does it make to show ID if you want to carry it?
    I suppose you support roadblocks every mile or so just to make sure everyone has a valid license, is wearing a seatbelt, not DUI/DWI, isn't driving a stolen car, etc...

    Sorry...freedom doesn't mean the police stop everyone from exercising their rights....
    FiremanPaul likes this.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  6. #20
    Member Array MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI, USA
    Posts
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by Coder
    Wow. Did you read the story on their page of the incident that happened Oct 7?
    The cops actually drew on a lady with no legit reason. Now they are endangering law abiding citizens. Things are out of control in WI...
    Actually, it happened July 4. Ironic, huh?
    Oct. 7 was the press release announcing the filing of the federal lawsuit.
    And BTW, that was me they were pointing their guns at.
    Second scariest thing that's ever happened to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodguru
    had the two who refused to show ID simply showed it to the cops you more than likely would have been on your way with no charges whatsoever

    1) that encourages the police in their illegal behaviours
    2) the people who gave ID (under threat of arrest) also got citations

    Quote Originally Posted by woodguru
    what difference does it make to show ID if you want to carry it?
    You don't have to show ID to buy a gun unless you go to a federally-regulated person.
    And what if every cop who saw you demanded your ID, and detained you 10 minutes while s/he ran a background check, plus checked the serial # on your pistol?
    I think that would be a lot of wasted time.
    It's also massively illegal, since the police have no RAS of a crime in order to stop you in the first place.
    The exercise of a civil right cannot be a crime.
    "The female of the species is more deadly than the male." R. Kipling

    Defense fund donations gratefully accepted here (PayPal link).

  7. #21
    Member Array AlphaMale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Unless you have a reference to a state statute, I have to disagree with you on this. You must have a license to drive, carry, fish, etc. and produce same on request, but I can find no reference stating that all persons must carry and/or produce ID. I may be required to identify myself ("My name is OldVet. I live at....) but I can find no requirement to carry identification at all times. Note that I am saying there is a difference between "identifying" youself and carrying some form of "identification."

    Here is the only statute I could find:
    DRUNKENNESS; OPEN HOUSE PARTIES; LOITERING; PROWLING; DESERTION View Entire Chapter

    856.021Loitering or prowling; penalty.
    —(1)It is unlawful for any person to loiter or prowl in a place, at a time or in a manner not usual for law-abiding individuals, under circumstances that warrant a justifiable and reasonable alarm or immediate concern for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity.

    (2)Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm or immediate concern is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself or herself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or herself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstance makes it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself or herself and explain his or her presence and conduct. No person shall be convicted of an offense under this section if the law enforcement officer did not comply with this procedure or if it appears at trial that the explanation given by the person is true and, if believed by the officer at the time, would have dispelled the alarm or immediate concern.

    (3)Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

    I do not believe this would apply to any lawful conduct. If you have any Florida statute or ruling reference that states clearly that we must "carry" any form of identification while acting lawfully, other than the agreed actions that require a license and ID (driving, carrying, hunting, fishing, etc.), I would appreciate it and will stand corrected.
    Here is the statute.

    790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.—

    (1) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9). Such licenses shall be valid throughout the state for a period of 5 years from the date of issuance. Any person in compliance with the terms of such license may carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm notwithstanding the provisions of s. 790.01. The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court.

    (2) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall issue a license if the applicant:

  8. #22
    mel
    mel is offline
    Member Array mel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    254
    I am happy to hear that the "Madison 5" have been exonerated by having the charges dismissed. I was just wondering if they are still moving forward with a federal lawsuit? Have they considered any civil suits as a result of having their civil rights infringed upon?

    I hope that the Govenor of Wisconsin will step up to the plate and push through a CCW permit, and that it has reciprocity with the surrounding states. That would only leave the FIB'ers as the only people in the upper Midwest as denying the right to self-protection of it's citizens and visitors to their state.

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    ORYGUN
    Posts
    1,517
    Quote Originally Posted by mel View Post
    I am happy to hear that the "Madison 5" have been exonerated by having the charges dismissed.
    I wonder how many tax dollars were wasted these past several months prosecuting these folks? I bet anything that it was no minor amount.

    Here is a link to a news report from earlier this month when the charges were dropped:

    http://host.madison.com/blogs/articl...cc4c002e0.html


    It is odd that the government never called any press conference to tell the press that they were doing this. They refused to even comment to the press.

    .

  10. #24
    mel
    mel is offline
    Member Array mel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    254
    I contacted the Wisconsin AG's office yesterday to find out if it was legal to open carry in the wonderful state of Wisconsin. The response that was given to me was murky at best. If you are in Milwaukee the MPD will arrest you. If you are out in the country probably not a big deal. I'm sorry Cheddar/Cheese Heads but you need to get your legislature and govenor off the schnide and fast track legislation, the response from the AG's office was an embarrassment.

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    ORYGUN
    Posts
    1,517
    Quote Originally Posted by mel View Post
    I contacted the Wisconsin AG's office yesterday to find out if it was legal to open carry in the wonderful state of Wisconsin. The response that was given to me was murky at best. If you are in Milwaukee the MPD will arrest you. If you are out in the country probably not a big deal. I'm sorry Cheddar/Cheese Heads but you need to get your legislature and govenor off the schnide and fast track legislation, the response from the AG's office was an embarrassment.
    What grounds will the Milwaukee Police use to make the arrest, though?? Do they have a city ordinance against it?

    .

  12. #26
    mel
    mel is offline
    Member Array mel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    254
    It was my understanding that the MPD will not tolerate open carry, period and that they have clearly stated this. On what grounds exactly I don't know, and the AG's office was not specific. From everything that I understand about Wisconsin law is that local ordinances can't pre-empt state law. But I could be wrong.

  13. #27
    VIP Member
    Array ksholder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    3,920
    So, we have the PDs of the 2 largest cities in the state simply ignoring the legislature, AG and the law. They have openly stated they will arrest people for not breaking the law in a certain manner. At least 1 department has acted on this misguided quest. And folks wonder why some don't trust the cops?

    The people's elected representatives have clearly lost control of law enforcement in Milwaukee and Madison. We have seen this in other places like NOLA and Philly. If this trend is not contained and put down, this could bode ill for the country. We are either a country of laws or we are not. If we are, the cops must operate under the law as well as non-cop citizens.

    Stepping off soapbox.
    bcvojak likes this.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Here is the Wisconsin mentality for Open Carry... What a Disgrace
    By rlimke in forum Open Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: September 23rd, 2010, 11:12 PM
  2. Wisconsin Carry, Inc. files civil suit against Wisconsin
    By bnhcomputing in forum Open Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: March 9th, 2010, 05:42 PM
  3. Wisconsin Open Carry Question
    By ecrist in forum Open Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: November 3rd, 2009, 01:26 PM
  4. Wisconsin AG issues opinion, "open carry is legal"
    By Kevin Jensen in forum Open Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: April 26th, 2009, 09:23 AM
  5. Open Carry In Wisconsin
    By toytek065 in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: January 15th, 2008, 01:03 PM

Search tags for this page

do i have to show cops my id in wisconsin
,
do i have to show my id to the cops wisconsin
,

do you have to show id to police in wisconsin

,
handgun purchase denial in wisconsin because misdemeanor
,
in the state of wisconsin do you have to provide id if asked by cop
,

madoson pd open carry lawsuit outcome

,

milwaukee open carry

,
milwaukee police department on open carry
,

open carry wi madison

,
what was the outcome of the open carry lawsuit against madison wi
,

wisconsin do i have to show id to police

,

wisconsin show id police

Click on a term to search for related topics.