Open Carry Stop in Livermore, California

This is a discussion on Open Carry Stop in Livermore, California within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; California Penal Code 12031 is clearly unconstitutional!...

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Thread: Open Carry Stop in Livermore, California

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    New Member Array DTOMLOD's Avatar
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    Open Carry Stop in Livermore, California



    California Penal Code 12031 is clearly unconstitutional!

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    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    If I was the Chief of Police I would change the paint job on vehicles so that it did not say "LICE".
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

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    New Member Array DTOMLOD's Avatar
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    This is another unconstitutional stop in Livermore, California that recently took place. For each of the main videos posted there are also related videos with audio tape recordings that were obtained through California Public Records Act requests that you might find interesting.

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    Did it really take three police cars and 4 officers to perform this B.S. ? What a waste of police time. The mono-tone of the officers voice was very telling.

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    Member Array trev869's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babarock View Post
    Did it really take three police cars and 4 officers to perform this B.S. ? What a waste of police time. The mono-tone of the officers voice was very telling.
    Yes I am sure that it did. Have you ever heard of a bait call? It is when someone baits an officer in with what you consider a B.S. call and then engages them. I can not figure out what so many people on here have a problem with. These officers are responding to a call and then checking to see if the person is abiding by the open carry laws of that state. They can't just assume that you are carrying it unloaded since that is required in CA. Plus have you ever worn a uniform? Until you have, just try to imagine not using caution and then not coming home to your wife and kids that night because someone thought 4 officers on a man with a gun call wasn't needed. I am all about the 2nd Amendment and what you say is a violation of the 4th Amendment(I strongly disagree that it was a violation) but times have changed. We have to protect our rights but the police also have to protect the people from potential threats. You should also read up on 2A and 4A because they are not just one sentence. I have seen videos where the police have crossed the line but these two were not the case. What you call a mono-tone voice is probably because he was tired of answering calls where some person was intentionally standing at a busy intersection with a camera and a gun just trying to provoke an incident. I am sure the police had better ways of spending our tax dollars but you should take that up with the guy that caused the incident in the first place. He had the camera on before they pulled up so it just showed that he was waiting on them to come. Kinda makes you wonder how he knew they were coming, maybe a little too obvious that he was wearing a gun so someone would call the police.

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    I swear the people that make these videos have way too much time on their hands. I've got to think their time would probably be better used in other ways to change the laws rather than making a spectacle of yourself and looking for trouble on public streets.

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    Member Array trev869's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastk9dad View Post
    I swear the people that make these videos have way too much time on their hands. I've got to think their time would probably be better used in other ways to change the laws rather than making a spectacle of yourself and looking for trouble on public streets.
    Exactly. I mean start petition websites or boycott anti-gun organizations. There are so many better ways of doing this besides provoking the people that are trying to protect you. I mean he goes out there and attempts to stir up a negative reaction from the police so he can post a youtube video but as soon as something happens, he will be calling the same officers to his house to help him. Most police officers I know are pro-gun but stuff like this makes us wonder why. I know we all want to protect our right to bear arms but man this is not the same US that it was when the Bill of Rights was passed. There are bad people out there that plan to do bad things. It does not take but about 2 minutes or less to let an officer check your gun and be on his way. I mean we have laws to follow and we pay tax dollars to hire police to enforce those laws so cooperate and let them do their job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fastk9dad View Post
    I swear the people that make these videos have way too much time on their hands. I've got to think their time would probably be better used in other ways to change the laws rather than making a spectacle of yourself and looking for trouble on public streets.
    I'm in general agreement with that. I'm all in favor of "Constitutional carry" and I understand that rights not exercised can result in rights denied, but to some extent the guys who go out with video cameras are effectively baiting the cops, as trev869 said. I can't imagine that even the most pro-2A cop just loves to check out one of these YouTube addicts. Go pick on the idiots in Sacramento, not the cops who are saddled with enforcement duties.

    Furthering that last suggestion, the CA open-carry folks would do well to emulate Michael Moore's tactics by videoing legislators outside the capitol building, and asking if they're afraid the holstered empty weapon... make 'em look as foolish as the laws they pass.
    Smitty
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    Member Array hk45c's Avatar
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    I'm going to be careful here, trying to follow the forum rules and all....

    But posts and stunts (that's what I see them as) like this kind of push me into an anti-OC mindset. Show me emperical evidence that stuff like this works. It probably makes matters worse.

    Give it a rest...really. Everytime I see stuff like this I think of the douché with the AK pistol with the painted orange tip...please don't be that guy...
    Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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    If not me, then who?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    I'm in general agreement with that. I'm all in favor of "Constitutional carry" and I understand that rights not exercised can result in rights denied, but to some extent the guys who go out with video cameras are effectively baiting the cops, as trev869 said. I can't imagine that even the most pro-2A cop just loves to check out one of these YouTube addicts. Go pick on the idiots in Sacramento, not the cops who are saddled with enforcement duties.
    Oh I agree. I have no issue with someone exercising their right, I just don't like the so called baiting. Go about your business, do what you need to do, if an officer stops you, let him check you out and go on your way. Heck if they stopped to actually talk to the officer for a moment they might find out they are nice people too and maybe make a friend. But it's obvious thats not what they want.

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    Member Array Varmiter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTOMLOD View Post

    California Penal Code 12031 is clearly unconstitutional!
    That statement is certainly not the case at the moment. If you doubt that, read the Heller and then the McDonald decision/opinion.

    Chris

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    What bothered me the most was the officer with weapon unholstered and in an aggressive nearly low ready position! I don't agree with the Baiting videos either. But we do need to protect ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    What bothered me the most was the officer with weapon upholstered and in an aggressive nearly low ready position! I don't agree with the Baiting videos either. But we do need to protect ourselves.
    Yes, the LEO weapon was upholstered but how was in aggressive in the low ready position? Action beats Reaction everytime. Is it possible that a person has a kill a cop/suicide by cop wish and was waiting for the first officer to approach and the person hands the first LEO an empty gun and when the first LEO is occupied by handling an empty weapon he draws a second loaded weapon killing the LEO? If you were LEO wouldn't you want somebody covering your back?

    IMHO all these posted videos are doing is making the LEO's mad. If I was a LEO I would be pushing to do away with OC unloaded laws. Why look to rock the boat by doing these videos. There are other states that would love to be able to carry unloaded given the chance.

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    Member Array carracer's Avatar
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    Ah, I looked again. What I saw as slightly crouched at an angle with the arm out straight was actually standing on a sloped surface. Still feel no excuse for an unholstered weapon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trev869 View Post
    Yes I am sure that it did. Have you ever heard of a bait call? It is when someone baits an officer in with what you consider a B.S. call and then engages them. I can not figure out what so many people on here have a problem with. These officers are responding to a call and then checking to see if the person is abiding by the open carry laws of that state. They can't just assume that you are carrying it unloaded since that is required in CA. Plus have you ever worn a uniform? Until you have, just try to imagine not using caution and then not coming home to your wife and kids that night because someone thought 4 officers on a man with a gun call wasn't needed. I am all about the 2nd Amendment and what you say is a violation of the 4th Amendment(I strongly disagree that it was a violation) but times have changed. We have to protect our rights but the police also have to protect the people from potential threats. You should also read up on 2A and 4A because they are not just one sentence. I have seen videos where the police have crossed the line but these two were not the case. What you call a mono-tone voice is probably because he was tired of answering calls where some person was intentionally standing at a busy intersection with a camera and a gun just trying to provoke an incident. I am sure the police had better ways of spending our tax dollars but you should take that up with the guy that caused the incident in the first place. He had the camera on before they pulled up so it just showed that he was waiting on them to come. Kinda makes you wonder how he knew they were coming, maybe a little too obvious that he was wearing a gun so someone would call the police.
    I'll start with - I'm sorry I got your dander up, was not my intent.

    Have I heard of a bait call? - Yes. I should have been more concise re the B.S. I was referring to was the CA law and to the OC person who obviously set the encounter up. Responding officers must bring to bear the numbers and force needed to do their jobs and be safe. Did the call really require the response the shown? I can not say with 100% - I was not there. I would absolutely rather they responded with 4 and only needed 2 than the other way around.

    Have I ever worn a uniform? No, but I have many close friends in LE and want you and them to be able to come home to their friends and family every night.

    You said I should read 2A and 4A..., Thank you I am very familiar with them and the ones before, between, and after. As I think I was not clear enough with my original comment, perhaps you read between the lines. I said nothing about anyone violating anyone's rights. I thought the officer was polite and efficient. I would hope that if I ever encounter you in a professional capacity our "visit" will be as nice.

    I think you and I agree that the person(s) who caused the police to have to perform these actions should be ashamed for wasting police time. I think we also agree on the reason for the officers mono-tone.

    I have been and will continue to be a strong supporter of the men and women who have one of the hardest jobs around. And finally in the immortal words of Sargent Hulka "Lighten up, Francis."

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