Are cops obligated to respond to a MWAG call?

This is a discussion on Are cops obligated to respond to a MWAG call? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ep1953 What liability? The supreme court has already held that the police have no obligation to protect us mere citizens. Originally Posted ...

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Thread: Are cops obligated to respond to a MWAG call?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ep1953 View Post
    What liability? The supreme court has already held that the police have no obligation to protect us mere citizens.
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post


    Interesting argument, but there is no duty to protect an individual. Protecting society or the general public is a different thing.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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  3. #17
    Member Array loboleather's Avatar
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    Generally speaking, government officials have no duty to respond to or to investigate any complaint, and no duty whatsoever to provide protection to any given persons, business, or place. This is well settled by several SCOTUS decisions.

    We have come to expect certain levels of response from law enforcement agencies, and those agencies have become accustomed to responding. The "MWAG" call will typically result in an adrenaline-laden response by officers anticipating a worst case scenario.

    This is one of the main reasons why I recommend concealed carry for those who choose to have the means to defend themselves. Cops have better things to do than responding to frantic calls about a "MWAG" from citizens who overeact to any sight of a firearm.

    The other reason I recommend concealed carry is simple courtesy for others in the community that might be alarmed about someone with a firearm in close proximity to them in their normal activities.

    We can't regulate rational behavior in others. All we can do is try to behave rationally.
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  4. #18
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    Well, as someone who works in a 911 center I thought I should give my two cents.

    I think you will find that every town,city,county,state has different protocols and rules for when to send and when not to send an officer.

    I worked for a town that allowed people in communications to filter calls and make decisions regarding when and if to send an officer. I now work in a different state with an agency that requires a response on EVERY call that requests police assistance.

    MWAG.....send them. Man walking down the street that the caller doesn't recognize from their neighborhood and they want an officer....send them.

    The liability risks have forced the adoption of policies that put that liability on the officer and their department rather than the communications division or 911 center.

    Now, does the officer then have the ability to not go to the call...sure, but that is a choice he or she has to make, not 911. Again, different policies in different states/counties/etc but with the litigation flying around out there, it would be a mistake to not investigate a MWAG claim regardless whether or not the caller or 911 thinks a law is being broken or not.

    Also, if the 911 center and operator are doing their job properly, they would gather the appropriate info regarding the MWAG and relay that to the officers.
    For instance...."MWAG waving it in the air at a daycare center" is a far cry from "MWAG at walmart in the sporting goods aisle minding his own business."

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    IMO in regards to the OPs question, it would depend on the state, city, and locale where the origin of the call resides.

    Yuma AZ, 911 operator responds with "Yeah, and...?"
    Denver (city & county) CO, 911 operator sends all available units - (illegal to OC)
    Surrounding city of Denver CO, 911 operator may or may not ask more info, will likely get a multi officer response (been there, done that)

    It all depends on the location and general public stance on handguns. If the area is gun friendly and OC is not all that uncommon, there may be a response, the 911 operator may dig for more info from the sheep. In a not so gun friendly area, where OC is uncommon, then unless there is some other major incident requiring a lot of LEO attention, then there will be a response.
    Sticks

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  6. #20
    Member Array trev869's Avatar
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    Where I work, dispatchers can not filter calls nor decide whether police are needed or not. They have to dispatch on all calls that come in. Believe me, I have been on some very dumb calls. I have also been on what sounded to be a dumb call and turned into something major. I think it just depends on the department.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array ron8903's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by black knife View Post
    They will respond to all calls.....I have been on some really stupid calls before.......we might take a while to get to them but someone will eventually show up. As far a man with a gun call......oh yeah they will show up to cover their ass even though it is legal to open carry.
    This, I responded to EVERY call that was dispatched to me.
    Not only that but if I wasn't tied up to every one that was dispatched while on duty.
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
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  8. #22
    Member Array mrjam2jab's Avatar
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    It's really all in how they respond. When officer gets to scene they observe the circumstances...and should be able to determine there is no reason to interact with the "subject"

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Obligated? Yes. Required? Debatable.



    Interesting argument, but there is no duty to protect an individual. Protecting society or the general public is a different thing.
    The SCOTUS and other Courts have said that there is no obligation.




    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po...otus.html?_r=1

    http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Crim...Protection.htm

    http://www.mcrkba.org/w19.html
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  10. #24
    Member Array Timezoneguy's Avatar
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    Great inputs thanks to all.
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by loboleather View Post
    Generally speaking, government officials have no duty to respond to or to investigate any complaint, and no duty whatsoever to provide protection to any given persons, business, or place. This is well settled by several SCOTUS decisions.

    We have come to expect certain levels of response from law enforcement agencies, and those agencies have become accustomed to responding. The "MWAG" call will typically result in an adrenaline-laden response by officers anticipating a worst case scenario.

    This is one of the main reasons why I recommend concealed carry for those who choose to have the means to defend themselves. Cops have better things to do than responding to frantic calls about a "MWAG" from citizens who overeact to any sight of a firearm.

    The other reason I recommend concealed carry is simple courtesy for others in the community that might be alarmed about someone with a firearm in close proximity to them in their normal activities.

    We can't regulate rational behavior in others. All we can do is try to behave rationally.
    What about courtesy to the officer that has to respond to a nuisance call? And to others in the community that may actually need the help of an officer?
    How about the inconvenience to the person with the gun that wasn't doing anything wrong?

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    Obligated? NO. Required? NO, AGAIN.



    Definitely!! And this is done by arresting and punishing the criminals AFTER the fact.
    ob·li·ga·tion (bl-gshn)
    n.
    1. The act of binding oneself by a social, legal, or moral tie.
    2.
    a. A social or moral requirement, such as a duty, contract, or promise that compels one to follow or avoid a particular course of action. A course of action imposed by society, law, or conscience by which one is bound or restricted.
    3. The constraining power of a promise, contract, law, or sense of duty.

    2. required - required by rule, re·quired (r-kwrd)
    adj.
    1. Needed; essential
    2. Obligatory


    I'll stand by my original opinion. The real question is where the requirement comes from. We are all in agreement there is no requirement some SCOTUS, but I'm pretty darn sure society as a whole requires it.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    ob·li·ga·tion (bl-gshn)
    n.
    1. The act of binding oneself by a social, legal, or moral tie.
    2.
    a. A social or moral requirement, such as a duty, contract, or promise that compels one to follow or avoid a particular course of action. A course of action imposed by society, law, or conscience by which one is bound or restricted.
    3. The constraining power of a promise, contract, law, or sense of duty.

    2. required - required by rule, re·quired (r-kwrd)
    adj.
    1. Needed; essential
    2. Obligatory


    I'll stand by my original opinion. The real question is where the requirement comes from. We are all in agreement there is no requirement some SCOTUS, but I'm pretty darn sure society as a whole requires it.

    But that does no good if you are the party viciously assaulted because the police never arrived. And you have no recourse per the courts.
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
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  14. #28
    Member Array mnconceal's Avatar
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    they always do investigate. I read in a MN conceal carry forum that a guy was posting about his experience at a Tmobile dealer where he was open carrying and that customers called it in and that the cops came and drew on him and then took him to the squad car and then they let him go after talking to their sargeants. Cops get too worked up when dealing with a gun situation that is why I don't open carry unless I am hunting and far away from public areas.

  15. #29
    Member Array trev869's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnconceal View Post
    they always do investigate. I read in a MN conceal carry forum that a guy was posting about his experience at a Tmobile dealer where he was open carrying and that customers called it in and that the cops came and drew on him and then took him to the squad car and then they let him go after talking to their sargeants. Cops get too worked up when dealing with a gun situation that is why I don't open carry unless I am hunting and far away from public areas.
    Not all cops get too worked up about it. There are plenty of factors that can play in. How long has he/she been a police officer? How much real experience does he have? Does he work in a high crime area? Is he an overzealous officer that loves to pull his shiny gun? Is he just playing cowboy? It all depends on what kind of officer he is and what he has been through. I have an example of what I am talking about. It does not fit 100% but you will get what I am saying. A city about 10 miles from ours chased a burglary suspect into our city. We assisted them and the suspect was caught in a very high crime area. The city that had started the chase is a very low crime upper class area. We were in a high crime area and where the chase had ended is a pretty bad place. After the chase was over, everyone was standing around just getting everything wrapped up. While standing there, automatic rifle fire rang out. Our officers could tell how far it was away and were just used to it, but the officers from the other city were not used to it. When our officers looked back, all the other city's officers were in cover positions and calling out on the radio "shots fired". Everything was okay but they just were not used to that type of situation.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Perhaps a little off the OP subject but what so many in our society forget is that the only person with you 24/7 is you. Far,far to many people rely on others for their protection and this gives them a false sense of security that could wind up being very costly. The couple at the Virginia Walmart posted on this forum that were assaulted by a man with a bat are a prime example. He can do nothing but "be in awe" and she tries to use her purse as a weapon. As the old saying goes, " When seconds count cops are only minutes away". Especially with calls of violence being inflicted on someone it is very very rare that I get there before the assault is over or in time to prevent it. Just my $.02.
    Last edited by Old School; January 2nd, 2011 at 10:08 AM.
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