Man Open Carries Rifle At Mall And Is Harassed... - Page 5

Man Open Carries Rifle At Mall And Is Harassed...

This is a discussion on Man Open Carries Rifle At Mall And Is Harassed... within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Idiot. Why someone would make an effort to OC a rifle is past me.........

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Thread: Man Open Carries Rifle At Mall And Is Harassed...

  1. #61
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Idiot. Why someone would make an effort to OC a rifle is past me......
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  2. #62
    Member Array chivvalry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightrider View Post
    Idiot. Why someone would make an effort to OC a rifle is past me......
    'cause it's a real beotch-kitty to adequately conceal an AR-15? I mean I guess you could shove it down your pants or wear a trench coat or something. This is only incrementally different than having a hunting rifle in the rear window of your pickup truck. In fact, it is probably safer since someone might break out the truck window and steal your rifle while you step into the convenience store for a soda pop.

    Again, this guy was asking for publicity and is a tool... but I would suggest we be careful about how vehemently we condemn his basic action of OC'ing a rifle.
    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    You are not paranoid if They are actually out to get you, however, They probably are not and you probably are.

  3. #63
    Member Array Timezoneguy's Avatar
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    This guy needs to understand we all live among the sheep. Location is a key issue here. It would bother me to see a guy with an AR ( I have 2 by the way) walking around the mall. Gun rights are best served when we use common sense and are sensitive to what the circumstances are . A mall, maybe not, headed into the gun store, sure. We will NEVER succeed unless all gun owners understand sheep will always be afraid of the sheep dogs. Common sense goes a long way. On the other had this guy seems like level head and conducted himself very well when police arrived.
    In a gun fight, you can not miss fast enough, to catch up.

  4. #64
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Chivvalry,

    When not in the field hunting, or transporting as to from the field...what good functional purpose is there to keeping ones guns on _display_ in truck window?

    What benefit does displayed truck window transport/storage offer ahead of being cased?
    And how is that method safer from theft and mishandling by others?

    Never mind again the item that toward real world emergency _escape_ having a handgun is almost always the better choice than a longgun as related to personal defense and tactics, while on American streets.

    You get carjacked...What good is a hunting rifle on a rear window rack in the immediate? It's useless.
    You get run up on in a Stop N' Rob or at the local Wal-Mart or Chuck E Cheese...What good is that rifle to as left behind on display in the trucks rear window? It's useless.
    You are in your home and your hear a person outside attempting to break into your garage or even the vehicle itself...What good is that rifle to you in the immediate as hung & stored in the rear window rack? It's useless.

    An item of display functionality, for the most part.

    The very few of the US population who live in areas where they can drive along a given public road and have lawful need and use for a hunting tool (rifle or shotgun) to discharge a firearm at all much less to shoot some animal at any given time frame as kept/stored in ones rear window rack is extremely small.
    Very much.

    To the most part that is an item of no real functional relevance, anymore....Aside from those few who wear a badge issued by a town/city, state or federal agency.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  5. #65
    Member Array chivvalry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Chivvalry,

    When not in the field hunting, or transporting as to from the field...what good functional purpose is there to keeping ones guns on _display_ in truck window?

    What benefit does displayed truck window transport/storage offer ahead of being cased?
    And how is that method safer from theft and mishandling by others?

    Never mind again the item that toward real world emergency _escape_ having a handgun is almost always the better choice than a longgun as related to personal defense and tactics, while on American streets.

    You get carjacked...What good is a hunting rifle on a rear window rack in the immediate? It's useless.
    You get run up on in a Stop N' Rob or at the local Wal-Mart or Chuck E Cheese...What good is that rifle to as left behind on display in the trucks rear window? It's useless.
    You are in your home and your hear a person outside attempting to break into your garage or even the vehicle itself...What good is that rifle to you in the immediate as hung & stored in the rear window rack? It's useless.

    An item of display functionality, for the most part.

    The very few of the US population who live in areas where they can drive along a given public road and have lawful need and use for a hunting tool (rifle or shotgun) to discharge a firearm at all much less to shoot some animal at any given time frame as kept/stored in ones rear window rack is extremely small.
    Very much.

    To the most part that is an item of no real functional relevance, anymore....Aside from those few who wear a badge issued by a town/city, state or federal agency.

    - Janq
    So because you can't define a "functional purpose" or "functional relevance" we shouldn't allow it? Or restrict to those few who wear a badge? I didn't say that hanging a rifle in your rear window was a good idea... I think it's a little reckless to do so actually. It was just an example of a practice that was/is common in some parts of the country and nobody bats an eye at it. I've seen hunters walk into a store with a rifle slung on their back and no one bats an eye. Those are examples of open carrying a rifle, that's all.

    Janq, you missed my point entirely. I'm not claiming a functional purpose for open carrying a rifle (though I'm certain many could be brought forth)... I'm stating that it is legal and, currently, our right to do so. I further state that eliminating that right would be a huge step in the wrong direction.

    Edit: You know what? I will claim at least one functional purpose for open carrying a rifle... look at my avatar. How the blazes am I going to carry a cased rifle on that? The only way I could transport a rifle on my motorcycle would be openly slung across my back.
    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    You are not paranoid if They are actually out to get you, however, They probably are not and you probably are.

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array Brass63's Avatar
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    Generally and constitutionally speaking, most here would agree that there are 3 legitimate restrictions on carrying concealed or open in public...
    1) not of age 2) a felon 3) not of sound mind
    IMHO, by his actions, this guy failed the 3rd requirement.
    This isn't about what is lawful...but what is sane. As Janq noted, there are times where carrying a black rifle is sane & rational...but an isolated guy in a crowded mall? Come on.
    I'm glad he's going to court...and I think a psych evaluation should be attached to his fine.
    The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.

  7. #67
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    It's an invalid argument toward open carry/display.

    Hunters walking into stores carrying arms openly, they do us more harm than good by representation and association.
    Never mind that in the store they aren't hunting anything (!), so there is no valid reason to be walking around town and into stores with their hunting firearms slung over a back...When they could just as easily and actually more comfortably and functionally handily be left locked in the vehicle they got to town in.
    It's not as though it's 1811 and they rode in to town by horseback.
    Concerned about personal safety? Okay, no problem...Handgun and/or other tools such as OC/CS like I'd mentioned in my first posting here.
    Like some hunter is seriously going to be functional with his 24"+ barrel .30-06 with 12x scope to combat a mugger or carjacker.

    Same goes for those that represent all of us who hunt as they drive around with beasts strapped to their hoods...Never mind that such practice totally ruins the meat (!).

    It's been noted by several others in this thread prior; Just because it's not unlawful doesn't mean it's wise/smart/the right thing to do.
    No there shouldn't be a law to disallow open carry of anything; Including even display of guns in rear windows of pickup trucks.
    Same as there should be no law against me punching myself in the groin fifteen times fast.

    Folks shouldn't have to depend on being told how to act and what to do and provided guidelines for judgment on how to behave like a sensible and reasonable person.
    But also there should be no crime and criminals robbing, raping and ripping people off too.

    So in the real world that we all must live in and among, like it or not, we have statutes and regulations, laws and social mores of decorum and behavior.
    As well we also have realistic views toward functional application of tools as well as unrealistic views of same.

    The case here with this dude shows what happens when an individual is unable to simply choose for himself to act right.
    There shouldn't have to be a law nor should law enforcement have to be interacting with this guy.
    Just go to the mall, shop or people watch and mind his business like everyone else in the shared space. No need to be bringing a longgun at all for any reason be it for show n' tell or to in his imagination think he'd deploy it against threats or possibly a rabid coyote that might wander into The Gap.

    I'd completely followed your assertion, and my counterpoint was not at all indicating elimination of any rights.
    It was toward as I'd stated; "Functional purpose" and "Functional relevance".

    Carrying around longguns in malls is not functionally purposeful; It just isn't. Not in the USA, including even Texas.
    Keeping stowed/stored in open display at vehicle windows firearms ostensibly there for some purposeful function, as other than to be hey look at me _display_, is again very much to the majority functionally relevant to persons who have a badge and would use such tools in the act of their profession be it to chase down BGs or to put down rabid beasts (game wardens).

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  8. #68
    Member Array chivvalry's Avatar
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    Right. We agree then. As I stated previously several times... this guy acted like a tool and is probably an anti-gun advocate attempting to sabotage the right to open carry anything by demonstrating the most ludicrous situation he possible could that was still legal. He's either a fool with a tool or a devious enemy of our rights.

    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato (427-347 B.C.)
    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    You are not paranoid if They are actually out to get you, however, They probably are not and you probably are.

  9. #69
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Agreed Brass...Very much.

    * Insufficient age
    [And notably a whole mess of persons are not mentally/emotionally of age even as they might be chronologically twice a given state or federal age cut off.
    For examples click here.]

    * Having been a felon.
    My best friend and oldest mentor is 20 yrs. my senior and happens to have been in his past a very much accomplished competition shooter as a civilian and tactical shooter & instructor when he was in the military (Army) stationed for years in Europe.
    That was before he killed a man in self defense (shot him through the eye orbit at close distance) and gravely wounded a second upon suffering an attempted take down at his residence by drug dealers. Problem for him though is that he himself was an even larger drug distributor and had been storing his product as well as large amounts of cash at his residence, and that word got out to those who wanted to take his stuff and his life too if he didn't fold. He didn't fold and instead resisted, with great force. Lethal force.
    As punishment he spent much of the 80s in first Federal holding and then prison followed by a state prison.
    I've known him since I was in my 20s roughly five years out from his release. We've been very good friends some 20 yrs. now.
    Almost every day via my FB page we chat about firearms, tactics, techniques, ballistics and he reminisces about the _armory_ of customized and specialized gear he'd once had and lost.
    He's a felon for life and can never again exercise his 2A rights in any way, shape or come with me to the range just to watch form.
    That is the law of our USA lands. Period, end of story.

    * Not of sound mind.
    Kind of like a fart in an elevator or sour meat.
    To some degree difficult to explain in text or spoken word, but you most often know it when you see/experience it.
    Yes some folks have low/no sense of smell and others actually prefer to eat sour meat as a delicacy.
    But speaking to majority views and tastes, sound mind is directly attributable to the very common 'Reasonable Man' test.
    As many might say no gun at all is needed in a mall and they would not be wrong in view. Others would say but I don't live in a mall and carry be I entering from the world or exiting to the world and as the world comes to me as among the mall. They too would not be wrong.
    In support of the latter there then comes the question of _function_ and _purpose_ toward tool selection.
    One would no more be reasonable to select a top-fuel dragster to use as a vehicle to commute on public roads to and from work then they would be to select and carry a longgun at the mall under the serious pretense of self defense and tactical application; With no mindset toward hey look at meee I've got a gun display.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  10. #70
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chivvalry View Post
    ...He's either a fool with a tool or a devious enemy of our rights.

    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato (427-347 B.C.)
    Very much agreed; Especially so with Plato to the point that I am going to borrow that quote in full and add that to my collection of same in relation to my own students.
    Thank you for providing that item.

    People like this guy do nothing but make my life more difficult, my friends and like minded associates (e.g. DC.com) lives more difficult and by their self-promoted as being benevolent actions very much put at risk the freedoms of my children and their future children as well.

    I have zero respect for people like this, as they by action have none for me and mine.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  11. #71
    Member Array Pioneer's Avatar
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    I understand the open carry movement, I really do, but I fear it may result in a backlash and more restrictions by various state legislatures. The guy had to know that he was going to draw unwanted attention. The open carry movement wants to "make a point" by shoving our rights, not just his, in the faces of the mall soccer moms, who I can guarantee will panic at the sight of an "assault rifle." I fear it may be counterproductive to the entire gun rights movement.

    The cops acted properly. I probably would not have had my pistol holstered, or may have had an AR in my hands from behind cover for the initial contact. The oath of office is not a suicide pact.
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  12. #72
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    I......have a different opinion about the gentleman. I'll leave it at that.
    X2 on that.
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  13. #73
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    He's a hero to gun control advocates, that's for sure...

  14. #74
    Member Array trev869's Avatar
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    Did I miss something or did the link change because the article I read said he was NOT charged?

  15. #75
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    Now, I'm not a sheep but if this guys show up at the mall while I'm with my children I'll run for cover.


    Go with the glow

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